# Dogging Bear Quota Hunt



## humdandy

This doggin bear bill will pass.  It will take place during bow season.

I would suggest ALL bear bow hunters put in for this dogging-bear quota hunt!  

I have a lab I'll take out with me if I get drawn!  

Should be fun!  I'll bring a few friends as well!


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## jbogg

I went to the meeting in Gainesville last night.  I asked why the hunt was scheduled just two weeks into bow season.  John Bowers responded that he wanted the hunt scheduled early enough so that it was a "good hunt".  Also it was mentioned that an early hunt was less likely to interfere with the dog hunters ability to hunt the bear/dog hunts in other states which occur later in the fall.  In a nut shell they said they were going to try it out and see how it goes.  From what I could tell there was very little consideration given to how this hunt might negatively impact bow hunters.

Chattahoochee will have a total of nine hunters drawn for the quota hunt with each hunter allowed to have up to nine additional participants with no limit on the number of bears taken during the nine day hunt.  If each group harvested 4 - 5 bears over the nine day period your looking at 35 - 45 bears killed.  I have no idea how many bears live on the WMA, but last fall there were a total of 14 bears killed all season, both bow and gun.  Also, there is no requirement that the dog hunters live in GA, so look for there to be a ton of people coming from out of state.

You do not have to be a dog hunter to sign up for this quota drawing so I will be putting my name in the hat.  My 14 year old retreiver mix is deaf and almost blind but I'm hoping she might be able to smell one from the truck.


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## Buckman18

Yeah the timing of that hunt is really stupid, and it screws a major client segment on those wma’s: the archery hunters. 

If they just waited a couple more weeks, it could fall between the end of archery and the first rifle deer/bear hunt? 

Weird...


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## Hillbilly stalker

Sure is a lot of dishonest people out there. Sounds like yall's beef is with the state, not screwing over fellow hunters. There's a right way to do things.


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## lampern

> Also, there is no requirement that the dog hunters live in GA, so look for there to be a ton of people coming from out of state.



Could be. The season will come in before the TN, SC and NC bear seasons.


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## humdandy

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Sure is a lot of dishonest people out there. Sounds like yall's beef is with the state, not screwing over fellow hunters. There's a right way to do things.



I have the right to take my dog out and bear hunt just like everybody else!
Should be fun!  How am I being dishonest?


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## tree cutter 08

I will say I like the no limit part. Will the 75 lb rule still apply?


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## deerpoacher1970

what is the dates of the hunt


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## Elkhound 1

humdandy said:


> This doggin bear bill will pass.  It will take place during bow season.
> 
> I would suggest ALL bear bow hunters put in for this dogging-bear quota hunt!
> 
> I have a lab I'll take out with me if I get drawn!
> 
> Should be fun!  I'll bring a few friends as well!


A classic example of a jealous hunter,he wants it all.


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## humdandy

Elkhound 1 said:


> A classic example of a jealous hunter,he wants it all.



Are you saying I'm jealous because I want to take my dog hunting with me?  Wow.

Dog hunters have the same opportunities I have during bow season....

I'm just taking advantage of all available hunting opportunities......


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## 35 Whelen

jbogg said:


> I went to the meeting in Gainesville last night.  I asked why the hunt was scheduled just two weeks into bow season.  John Bowers responded that he wanted the hunt scheduled early enough so that it was a "good hunt".  Also it was mentioned that an early hunt was less likely to interfere with the dog hunters ability to hunt the bear/dog hunts in other states which occur later in the fall.  In a nut shell they said they were going to try it out and see how it goes.  From what I could tell there was very little consideration given to how this hunt might negatively impact bow hunters.
> 
> Chattahoochee will have a total of nine hunters drawn for the quota hunt with each hunter allowed to have up to nine additional participants with no limit on the number of bears taken during the nine day hunt.  If each group harvested 4 - 5 bears over the nine day period your looking at 35 - 45 bears killed.  I have no idea how many bears live on the WMA, but last fall there were a total of 14 bears killed all season, both bow and gun.  Also, there is no requirement that the dog hunters live in GA, so look for there to be a ton of people coming from out of state.
> 
> You do not have to be a dog hunter to sign up for this quota drawing so I will be putting my name in the hat.  My 14 year old retreiver mix is deaf and almost blind but I'm hoping she might be able to smell one from the truck.



Thanks for the report on the meeting Jbogg!  Any other issues discussed?


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## j_seph

Hopefully there will be stipulations so it works out to do what the DNR has it in place to do. One would imagine with 749,689 acres of Chattahoochee National Forest and only 52,274 acres of that being in Chattahoochee and Chestatee we could all get along.


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## jbogg

35 Whelen said:


> Thanks for the report on the meeting Jbogg!  Any other issues discussed?



A couple of other things. There will be no more bear dog training on National Forest in the spring as a result of lots of complaints From the surrounding private property owners regarding packs of dogs on their land, as well as the negative impact packs of dogs have on other wildlife that time of year like newborn fawns and poults.  

Also, 30 caliber air guns as well as air bows are now legal weapons for big game including turkey. These will not be allowed during archery season but will be allowed during primitive weapons and rifle hunts.


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## jbogg

j_seph said:


> Hopefully there will be stipulations so it works out to do what the DNR has it in place to do. One would imagine with 749,689 acres of Chattahoochee National Forest and only 52,274 acres of that being in Chattahoochee and Chestatee we could all get along.



As I have tried to make clear, I am not against dog hunting or dog hunters at all, just the timing of the hunt. I have spent three years  walking literally hundreds of miles on Chattahoochee and Chestatee learning the land. Stating that there are hundreds of thousands of additional National Forest acres I could go hunt is true, but investing that much time to start over and learn a new area requires a lot of work and time.  Starting this year there is only one week of bow season until the gun hunters role in on the rifle hunt.  That is followed immediately by a nine day bear dog hunt which will Have a huge effect on the bear population, not to mention daytime bear activity for weeks after the hunt has ended. All I have said from the beginning is that if the dog Hunt was moved back several weeks that would give bow hunters enough time in the woods to be successful as well as allowing the dog hunters to hunt early enough in the year when all the bears are still on their feet and moving.   I believe that is a compromise that everyone could live with.


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## 35 Whelen

Interesting that the decision to have dog bear hunts on Chattahoochee and Chestatee WMA's seems to have already been made before the meetings and comment period is even over!


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## C.Killmaster

35 Whelen said:


> Interesting that the decision to have dog bear hunts on Chattahoochee and Chestatee WMA's seems to have already been made before the meetings and comment period is even over!



That's usually how it works, barring some unforeseen or major issue.  The first round of public meetings and comment period in January is where public input helps develop the regulation proposals.  Any changes at this point require, by state law, that the whole process starts over which would mean they wouldn't be ready in time to develop the regulation guide in time for hunting season.  Should the Board decide not to approve the hunt, those WMAs would be closed to all hunting during that time period.

That first round of 7 public meetings and comment period is actually not required by law, it's something DNR does to encourage even more public involvement in decision-making to be more consistent with the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.


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## strothershwacker

After opposing the timing of the dog hunt during the comment section of the meeting, I was ignored during the open question/ comment portion at the end as I held my hand up waiting patiently as the spokesman of the dog group was allowed to go on and on and on bout how great dog hunting is as he belittled my style of hunting. I am glad that the doggers are getting an opportunity to run bear. I don't doubt that they enjoy There style of hunting as much as I do mine. I wish them all a safe, enjoyable and productive hunt. If y'all doggers get bear, post the pics and tell us the story! Good luck!


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## livinoutdoors

I would sign up for the dog hunt, but my dogs are great pyrenese/anatolian shepard crosses. Them fools would set up a perimeter and i wouldnt see an animal for days. Good luck to all, im sorry to see bow season shortened, hopefully it will still work out for bow hunters and dog hunters. At the end of the day, country folks and hunters need to stick together, cuz everybody else hates us.


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## Panther25

C.Killmaster said:


> That's usually how it works, barring some unforeseen or major issue.  The first round of public meetings and comment period in January is where public input helps develop the regulation proposals.  Any changes at this point require, by state law, that the whole process starts over which would mean they wouldn't be ready in time to develop the regulation guide in time for hunting season.  Should the Board decide not to approve the hunt, those WMAs would be closed to all hunting during that time period.
> 
> That first round of 7 public meetings and comment period is actually not required by law, it's something DNR does to encourage even more public involvement in decision-making to be more consistent with the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.



So does that mean 16 people can show up to a meeting, request a major change for a WMA, and it's pretty much a done deal? How does that ensure maximum public input?

There could be many more who were against the proposed change, but didn't even know it would be brought up at the initial meeting. Then when they see it in the proposed regs, it's pretty much done deal. It sounds like public input isn't worth the time once a change is in the proposed regs. That means 16 people made a major change on a WMA that more than 16 people use.


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## C.Killmaster

Panther25 said:


> So does that mean 16 people can show up to a meeting, request a major change for a WMA, and it's pretty much a done deal? How does that ensure maximum public input?
> 
> There could be many more who were against the proposed change, but didn't even know it would be brought up at the initial meeting. Then when they see it in the proposed regs, it's pretty much done deal. It sounds like public input isn't worth the time once a change is in the proposed regs. That means 16 people made a major change on a WMA that more than 16 people use.



No, not really.  There's been a desire from many folks for years to provide some opportunity for this, it didn't just come up this year.


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## humdandy

C.Killmaster said:


> No, not really.  There's been a desire from many folks for years to provide some opportunity for this, it didn't just come up this year.



How many state biologists support this?


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## C.Killmaster

humdandy said:


> How many state biologists support this?



Don't know, I haven't polled them.


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## humdandy

C.Killmaster said:


> Don't know, I haven't polled them.



Ah....come on...you guys and gals talk.

Do you support it?


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## j_seph

Panther25 said:


> So does that mean 16 people can show up to a meeting, request a major change for a WMA, and it's pretty much a done deal? How does that ensure maximum public input?
> 
> There could be many more who were against the proposed change, but didn't even know it would be brought up at the initial meeting. Then when they see it in the proposed regs, it's pretty much done deal. It sounds like public input isn't worth the time once a change is in the proposed regs. That means 16 people made a major change on a WMA that more than 16 people use.


Would be interesting to see the numbers of how many signed in at Hooch and Chestatee during bow season.


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## Joe Brandon

j_seph said:


> Would be interesting to see the numbers of how many signed in at Hooch and Chestatee during bow season.


First day of bow alone there is typically 2-4 sheets full of names. Think we counted 40-50 something last year at the check station.


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## Joe Brandon

I'll tell yall this, according to DNR only 15 bears were killed on Chattahoochee WMA last year. I took two of those and know of 8 other bears killed. There is no way that there are only 5 bears that cant be accounted for through my little 5 man or so group of friends on here. I checked one of my my hooch bears in with the Rome region DNR because that is where region 2 told me to check the bear in due to the fact that I bought the bear home and do not live in region two. Perhaps that info dosent get communicated as coming off of the Chattahoochee? Don't know just seems like there are some opportunities for better communication among the WRD branches/staff. I know lack of funds is a factor and I know our WRD/DNR people work very hard.


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## goshenmountainman

Panther25 said:


> So does that mean 16 people can show up to a meeting, request a major change for a WMA, and it's pretty much a done deal? How does that ensure maximum public input?
> 
> There could be many more who were against the proposed change, but didn't even know it would be brought up at the initial meeting. Then when they see it in the proposed regs, it's pretty much done deal. It sounds like public input isn't worth the time once a change is in the proposed regs. That means 16 people made a major change on a WMA that more than 16 people use.


This has been a topic for discussion at a number of meetings, I think about five years ago, maybe more, it was brought up at a meeting in Clayton Georgia. I was there and spoke about the doe days and how we didn't need any in the mountains..and I was in favor of giving the houndsman a bear season and expressed my opinion about that and how we needed to control the exploding bear population, took this long to get a season for them and to do away with the doe days. I don't agree with the timing, but we need some help in these mountains. I don't think this is a fix for the problem but every little bit helps, next they need to make it legal to bait bears and lower the weight limit to 50lbs. much easier to tell 50 pounds than 75, a lot smaller body.


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## Buckman18

goshenmountainman said:


> This has been a topic for discussion at a number of meetings, I think about five years ago, maybe more, it was brought up at a meeting in Clayton Georgia. I was there and spoke about the doe days and how we didn't need any in the mountains..and I was in favor of giving the houndsman a bear season and expressed my opinion about that and how we needed to control the exploding bear population, took this long to get a season for them and to do away with the doe days. I don't agree with the timing, but we need some help in these mountains. I don't think this is a fix for the problem but every little bit helps, next they need to make it legal to bait bears and lower the weight limit to 50lbs. much easier to tell 50 pounds than 75, a lot smaller body.


This. And add a spring season, increase the bag limit, and do away with the aggravation you have to go through to get one tagged.


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## Christian hughey

jbogg said:


> As I have tried to make clear, I am not against dog hunting or dog hunters at all, just the timing of the hunt. I have spent three years  walking literally hundreds of miles on Chattahoochee and Chestatee learning the land. Stating that there are hundreds of thousands of additional National Forest acres I could go hunt is true, but investing that much time to start over and learn a new area requires a lot of work and time.  Starting this year there is only one week of bow season until the gun hunters role in on the rifle hunt.  That is followed immediately by a nine day bear dog hunt which will Have a huge effect on the bear population, not to mention daytime bear activity for weeks after the hunt has ended. All I have said from the beginning is that if the dog Hunt was moved back several weeks that would give bow hunters enough time in the woods to be successful as well as allowing the dog hunters to hunt early enough in the year when all the bears are still on their feet and moving.   I believe that is a compromise that everyone could live with.


I agree, bear doggon sucks if it interferes with our bow season. I also feel the same about the early gun hunt. Nothing against fellow hunters and your opportunity you have the same rights as I, but you have to admit you have an upper hand with the dog and rifle in hand.


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## Hillbilly stalker

Christian hughey said:


> I agree, bear doggon sucks if it interferes with our bow season. I also feel the same about the early gun hunt. Nothing against fellow hunters and your opportunity you have the same rights as I, but you have to admit you have an upper hand with the dog and rifle in hand.


You picked your own weapon and method right ?


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## Christian hughey

Hillbilly stalker said:


> You picked your own weapon and method right ?


Yeah but now your way is cutting my way short. Why can't you guys understand that we aren't bashing your style. Just the timing.


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## Joe Brandon

Doggonit!!!!!! Who got some some hounds for sale??


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## Joe Brandon

Need about 5 Garmin collars, 4 good dogs, a box for the back of the truck, and a good cold nose lead dog. Those dog hunters put a lot of money into it, and it is a lifestyle. If anyone gets drawn let me join please. I am fit and ready to climb, not even trigger happy just want to join along and use my legs!


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## strothershwacker

Joe Brandon said:


> Need about 5 Garmin collars, 4 good dogs, a box for the back of the truck, and a good cold nose lead dog. Those dog hunters put a lot of money into it, and it is a lifestyle. If anyone gets drawn let me join please. I am fit and ready to climb, not even trigger happy just want to join along and use my legs!


Joe's dragging service. No bear too big no hill to steep!


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## Raylander

Joe Brandon said:


> Need about 5 Garmin collars, 4 good dogs, a box for the back of the truck, and a good cold nose lead dog. Those dog hunters put a lot of money into it, and it is a lifestyle. If anyone gets drawn let me join please. I am fit and ready to climb, not even trigger happy just want to join along and use my legs!



I'm in the same boat! I wanna see these hounds work! Ive got a plot mix- but hes getting old..


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## Joe Brandon

strothershwacker said:


> Joe's dragging service. No bear too big no hill to steep!


Hahaha! Its something so new to me I'd just be really intrested to see it all work.


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## Christian hughey

I would like to see a hunt this time of the year 





Joe Brandon said:


> Hahaha! Its something so new to me I'd just be really intrested to see it all work.


I would like to see a hunt of any kind coordinated just after turkey season. To get people in the woods when turkey poults and fawns are most vulnerable but for some reason they don't want us out there this time of year which I don't get. If the bears are such a problem you'd think they would let us hunt them when they are most vulnerable themselves. Maybe one day. But definitely if they do the dog season anytime outside of normal archery season, I'm in!!!


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## twincedargap

I've got three dogs. I'll be signing up for the quota too. Fight back is all I know to do.


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## Hillbilly stalker

twincedargap said:


> I've got three dogs. I'll be signing up for the quota too. Fight back is all I know to do.


The correct fight is to deal with the state, not screwing over a fellow legal hunter


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## NCHillbilly

Just be glad you have some bear season that isn't open to dogs. Here in NC, if you don't have a pack of hounds or a private honey hole, you aren't killing a bear, unless you hunt illegally at night.


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## greg_n_clayton

Joe Brandon said:


> Doggonit!!!!!! Who got some some hounds for sale??


PM me !


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## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> I would like to see a hunt this time of the year
> I would like to see a hunt of any kind coordinated just after turkey season. To get people in the woods when turkey poults and fawns are most vulnerable but for some reason they don't want us out there this time of year which I don't get. If the bears are such a problem you'd think they would let us hunt them when they are most vulnerable themselves. Maybe one day. But definitely if they do the dog season anytime outside of normal archery season, I'm in!!!


Every bear dog hunter I know will not have a dog that will pay a deer/fawn or turkey any attention ! It just ain't gonna be in the pack...or anybody else's for the matter. I will leave that right there !! If it ain't a pig or a bear it just ain't happening .... around here anyways !


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## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> Every bear dog hunter I know will not have a dog that will pay a deer/fawn or turkey any attention ! It just ain't gonna be in the pack...or anybody else's for the matter. I will leave that right there !! If it ain't a pig or a bear it just ain't happening .... around here anyways !


I'm not worried about your dogs running deer or turkey. I am worried about all the ? eating them, so it would be a perfect time to run them is all I was saying and it's also the time of year the bear are most vulnerable to be harvested.


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## strothershwacker

I'm lookin forward to seeing how this all turns out. I'm still dead set against the timing but I'm also excited for the houndsmen that get to turn their dogs loose on some bear filled woods. It's a big victory for the dog guys, let em have their hunt. Be supportive. At the end of the day we're all on the same team.


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## twincedargap

Hillbilly stalker said:


> The correct fight is to deal with the state, not screwing over a fellow legal hunter


I hunted with my dog beside me last year and you didn’t care. Now I have a quota to hunt against. It’s a new opportunity for me. Got nothing to do with you.


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## Hillbilly stalker

twincedargap said:


> I hunted with my dog beside me last year and you didn’t care. Now I have a quota to hunt against. It’s a new opportunity for me. Got nothing to do with you.


So your for the houndsman getting an opportunity ? That's totally different than trying to fill the quota before real houndsman can have a shot ? Was your dog a bear dog last year ? Was it legal to run bear dogs in that area ? As long as its legal and ethical, I could care less how you hunt. Good luck.


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## Christian hughey

Guess us bow hunters will be somewhere along the boundary waiting for the hounds to run them our way. With all that excitement goin on bound to be some boars up and moving that first couple days. Good luck and hopefully I will have mine down opening weekend anyway.


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## twincedargap

Hillbilly stalker said:


> So your for the houndsman getting an opportunity ? That's totally different than trying to fill the quota before real houndsman can have a shot ? Was your dog a bear dog last year ? Was it legal to run bear dogs in that area ? As long as its legal and ethical, I could care less how you hunt. Good luck.


I said beside me. Didn’t say he was chasing anything.


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## greg_n_clayton

WHAT A MESS !! What i am seeing is a South vs North thing !! Do they have a dog vs bear hunt in the South ? The timing...
Yes is wrong ! But....can yall hunt bear with dogs in the Southern zone ?? And....how many yall got down there ?? They are like rats up here !


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## whitetailfreak

I don't hunt y'all's side of the mountain much, but I may just have to put in. I believe I can round up some fellers who know a thing or two about dogging bears


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## humdandy

I can't wait........I've hunted lions, deer and hogs with dogs....never bear!


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## Joe Brandon

Honestly my take and what really gave me peace was just realizing that we as hunters have to stick together. Look at fb, the news, heck probably some of your coworkers, we are demonized. We gotta stick together or we'll end up fragmented and will ultimately lose as a whole. Hunt 1 hunt all let's roll baby!!!!!!!


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## NCHillbilly

whitetailfreak said:


> I don't hunt y'all's side of the mountain much, but I may just have to put in. I believe I can round up some fellers who know a thing or two about dogging bears
> 
> View attachment 966628


I would guess you wouldn't have a whole lot of trouble rounding up a few.


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## NCHillbilly

humdandy said:


> I can't wait........I've hunted lions, deer and hogs with dogs....never bear!


It's some of the most fun you can have clothed. And it's also a lot of work. I loved it. I grew up in a hound family in the county where Plott hounds originated, and kept bear hounds, coonhounds, and beagles for about 25 years. I unfortunately don't have the time or money or energy to do right by a good pack of hounds any more.


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## PappyHoel

I will apply and I’m happy that dog/bear hunters will have a chance at them.


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## j_seph

twincedargap said:


> I've got three dogs. I'll be signing up for the quota too. Fight back is all I know to do.


Again this could end up being arranged so that just any person because they have dogs (I have 2 beagles a leopard cur and a lab) cannot put in. As @Hillbilly stalker said, deal with the state not mess with other hunters. One day your vote for something, even for regular hunting privileges may depend on these fellas votes.


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## Raylander

j_seph said:


> Again this could end up being arranged so that just any person because they have dogs (I have 2 beagles a leopard cur and a lab) cannot put in. As @Hillbilly stalker said, deal with the state not mess with other hunters. One day your vote for something, even for regular hunting privileges may depend on these fellas votes.



Who is gonna judge the worthiness of ones hound? Id like to do it if'n the position aint been filled yet.. You gotta lead for me?


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## j_seph

worleyburd86 said:


> Who is gonna judge the worthiness of ones hound? Id like to do it if'n the position aint been filled yet.. You gotta lead for me?


Could be ya gotta buy an additional permit like alligator permit. Maybe you got to buy one before you put in. Maybe you have to register your dogs with DNR and pay a fee. Who knows but I imagine there will some method.


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## NCHillbilly

worleyburd86 said:


> Who is gonna judge the worthiness of ones hound? Id like to do it if'n the position aint been filled yet.. You gotta lead for me?


Pitch out all the Walkers first.


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## humdandy

j_seph said:


> Could be ya gotta buy an additional permit like alligator permit. Maybe you got to buy one before you put in. Maybe you have to register your dogs with DNR and pay a fee. Who knows but I imagine there will some method.



That didn't work out so well for dog-deer hunters.........unfair tax is what it was....

We did the $5 fee, had to put decals on the truck when we dog hunted.....not fair.

Maybe still hunters need to register their stands?  A $5 fee per stand?  Label it too.....so when it is left on WMA they can be responsible for dumping trash...

Who knows but I imagine there should be some method.


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## j_seph

humdandy said:


> That didn't work out so well for dog-deer hunters.........unfair tax is what it was....
> 
> We did the $5 fee, had to put decals on the truck when we dog hunted.....not fair.
> 
> Maybe still hunters need to register their stands?  A $5 fee per stand?  Label it too.....so when it is left on WMA they can be responsible for dumping trash...
> 
> Who knows but I imagine there should be some method.


Then is it fair to have to buy special license to gator hunt? Would you prefer to go into a quota drawing with 500 people in which 450 are just your regular hunter as myself and anti hunters or would you rather there be 50 of those 500 was all that could apply for it?


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## Christian hughey

j_seph said:


> Then is it fair to have to buy special license to gator hunt? Would you prefer to go into a quota drawing with 500 people in which 450 are just your regular hunter as myself and anti hunters or would you rather there be 50 of those 500 was all that could apply for it?


I would prefer to be able to apply just like everyone else and hunt how I want no matter the style of hunt if it's a quota hunt and I'm picked. I should be able to use that spot with bow, gun, ? or whatever I feel necessary to go out and bag a bear. Reguardless of how the hunt is branded. I don't think DNR will go that far into what kind of hounds you have. I think me and my beagle will do just fine and I will also have all my friends apply as well. Most of them have a weiner dog or a pomerainian or something lol. See if we can get that number to 1000. Good luck out there. I don't care how you hunt I'm just ready to get out there and hunt. Cameras are about to start rolling, 4 months out and I'ma itchin to sling some arrows.


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## Hillbilly stalker

Christian hughey said:


> I would prefer to be able to apply just like everyone else and hunt how I want no matter the style of hunt if it's a quota hunt and I'm picked. I should be able to use that spot with bow, gun, ? or whatever I feel necessary to go out and bag a bear. Reguardless of how the hunt is branded. I don't think DNR will go that far into what kind of hounds you have. I think me and my beagle will do just fine and I will also have all my friends apply as well. Most of them have a weiner dog or a pomerainian or something lol. See if we can get that number to 1000. Good luck out there. I don't care how you hunt I'm just ready to get out there and hunt. Cameras are about to start rolling, 4 months out and I'ma itchin to sling some arrows.


That's pretty much a anti - hunters tactic. Hog up all the tags so the guys that really are houndsman don't get an opportunity . It's sad people cannot be honest and do what's right instead of being selfish and throwing a hissy fit.


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## Christian hughey

Hillbilly stalker said:


> That's pretty much a anti - hunters tactic. Hog up all the tags so the guys that really are houndsman don't get an opportunity . It's sad people cannot be honest and do what's right instead of being selfish and throwing a hissy fit.


Oh I'm far from Anti hunter I'm all in when It comes to getting outdoors and dont have a hissy Im just messing with ya have some humor, life's too short. I don't care that much for or against the hunt other than it cutting down on bow season a bit but I honestly think the dogs running will help hunters on the outskirts of the wmas for a couple of days at least.


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## The mtn man

Joe Brandon said:


> Need about 5 Garmin collars, 4 good dogs, a box for the back of the truck, and a good cold nose lead dog. Those dog hunters put a lot of money into it, and it is a lifestyle. If anyone gets drawn let me join please. I am fit and ready to climb, not even trigger happy just want to join along and use my legs!


If you get drawn, you can have 9 others with you, if you get drawn, i will get you the others, along with their fine hounds.


----------



## goshenmountainman

The mtn man said:


> If you get drawn, you can have 9 others with you, if you get drawn, i will get you the others, along with their fine hounds.


If you can get the dogs and hunters I will put in for the hunt, wouldn't mind going on my first bear hunt with dogs. We have bayed 3 or 4 bears while hog hunting but I never been on a bear hunt.


----------



## Christian hughey

Im





The mtn man said:


> If you get drawn, you can have 9 others with you, if you get drawn, i will get you the others, along with their fine hounds.


I'm in, if I get drawn I will let you boys know. I'm guessing the draw will be June 1?


----------



## Joe Brandon

The mtn man said:


> If you get drawn, you can have 9 others with you, if you get drawn, i will get you the others, along with their fine hounds.


Man I would love that!!!! Thank you! Youd have to come as well as much as you've coached and helped me out the last few years!


----------



## Rabun

So can you archery hunt deer/bear during the dog hunt...if you're not dog hunting...even if you're picked within the quota for the dog hunt?  Assuming not.  What weapons are legal during the dog hunt to kill the bears?  No ulterior motives...just curious.


----------



## Christian hughey

Rabun said:


> So can you archery hunt deer/bear during the dog hunt...if you're not dog hunting...even if you're picked within the quota for the dog hunt?  Assuming not.  What weapons are legal during the dog hunt to kill the bears?  No ulterior motives...just curious.


I'm sure you can use whatever. Just like the early gun hunts they have during bow season.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Good Lord there's a bunch of whining going on here!! I'm glad to see there's a few guys who are glad for the hound hunters because I am. The bears aren't going to disappear because DNR monitors the population and will reduce tags if necessary. If they go nocturnal that's fine with me. Easier to stalk a sleeping bear than and alert one. Plus, there's like 400,000 other acres of national forest you can bow hunt without fear of hounds. 
I've got an Australian Shepherd that loves to find bears and I'm pumped to be able to put her to the test! She works close and indicates somewhat like a bird dog. I'll put in for that tag and see what happens. 
I'd love to tag along and witness a hound hunt if anyone draws it and wouldn't mind company.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

goshenmountainman said:


> If you can get the dogs and hunters I will put in for the hunt, wouldn't mind going on my first bear hunt with dogs. We have bayed 3 or 4 bears while hog hunting but I never been on a bear hunt.


I know of a whole bunch of "good" dogs !!


----------



## goshenmountainman

greg_n_clayton said:


> I know of a whole bunch of "good" dogs !!


I will put in for it then.


----------



## strothershwacker

I'll be somewhere else bowhunting. ?


----------



## humdandy

Anybody know when we put in for the Quota?


----------



## Christian hughey

humdandy said:


> Anybody know when we put in for the Quota?


June 1st is the beginning of the quota hunts sign up for deer. Not sure but it will probably be then.


----------



## lampern

It has to be approved by the DNR board of commissioners first.

They could reject it


----------



## tree cutter 08

One i talked to said he was not for it. Time will tell.


----------



## robert carter

Stupid question. Is this for this fall or next.


----------



## strothershwacker

robert carter said:


> Stupid question. Is this for this fall or next.


This fall.


----------



## 35 Whelen

If approved it will be for 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons.


----------



## Limb Hanger

In NC bear hunters (houndsmen) have a VERY strong voice in any decision made up here.  You guys need to be prepared.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

goshenmountainman said:


> I will put in for it then.


You get drawed and I can almost guarantee  you a bear if they are moving !!

Has anybody heard anything about it getting approved yet ??


----------



## goshenmountainman

greg_n_clayton said:


> You get drawed and I can almost guarantee  you a bear if they are moving !!
> 
> Has anybody heard anything about it getting approved yet ??


I can't even find the quota hunt on the list of hunts on their site.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

goshenmountainman said:


> I can't even find the quota hunt on the list of hunts on their site.


I haven't heard if it was approved !


----------



## Christian hughey

It will probly be a last min thing. Keep reading GON, sure they will know about it.


----------



## Heath

I see a lot of you would cut off your nose to spite your face.
  Unlike most of you with opinions about mountain hunting, I actually live in them and hunt them 5 or 6 days a week.  You’ll see no planted pines or corn kernels in my avatar.  No private land or farms bordering a hill and calling myself a mountain hunter.  Please stop interfering with our way of life.
  Us dog hunters had no say when bow season crept two weeks earlier 15 years ago and took those days away from us hog hunters.  We had no say when you took nearly 6 weeks of turkey season away from us and left us the last 3 weeks of heat to get dogs killed in.  When you make statements like “they can hunt anytime” it shows you are not a Mountain hunter nor do you know the laws as it pertains to hog and bear hunting with dogs in the Mountains.  Hog season is only year round for private land flatlanders and a few people who just go south and lease land.  We poor dumb mountain dog hunters have to take the scraps deer and turkey hunters leave us on the whims of our misinformed biologists.  You don’t run bear in the mountains with good dogs in the heat or you don’t have dogs for long.  I’ve lived it for too long.  Yes, you can run trashy crap that boo hoos around and isn’t running hard enough to catch but not real run to catch bear dogs.  Pop ups are great but the bears that gut check a dog will cost you the lives of any real bear dogs in the crowd.  I’ve been South and hunted in the heat but it’s no comparison to a 16 hour bear race and fight in the mountains.  Summer hunting is a death sentence to hard driving bear catching dogs.
  Lastly, I’m a deer and Turkey hunter as well and I would never vote against or promote anyone else try and hinder or take anything away from another hunter.  Having said that, is it really unfair to give dog hunters their first 9 day hunt and the deer hunters only get a little over 110 days?
  Am I the only one laughing out loud at this ludicrous argument that you deer hunters are being slighted?


----------



## Christian hughey

Nobody's arguing I think most of us are excited about the new opportunity and will be looking for some good guys and dogs to team up with when the time comes. Don't bash them for being disappointed that they are missing out. I'm gonna be a little jealous if I'm not invited along too. I hunt flat land, swamp, mountains wherever I may roam week to week, it adds to the adventure. But most of all most all of it is public land unless I'm invited along somewhere and you know how often that happens on private land. Happy hunting


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Maybe next year


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Heath said:


> I see a lot of you would cut off your nose to spite your face.
> Unlike most of you with opinions about mountain hunting, I actually live in them and hunt them 5 or 6 days a week.  You’ll see no planted pines or corn kernels in my avatar.  No private land or farms bordering a hill and calling myself a mountain hunter.  Please stop interfering with our way of life.
> Us dog hunters had no say when bow season crept two weeks earlier 15 years ago and took those days away from us hog hunters.  We had no say when you took nearly 6 weeks of turkey season away from us and left us the last 3 weeks of heat to get dogs killed in.  When you make statements like “they can hunt anytime” it shows you are not a Mountain hunter nor do you know the laws as it pertains to hog and bear hunting with dogs in the Mountains.  Hog season is only year round for private land flatlanders and a few people who just go south and lease land.  We poor dumb mountain dog hunters have to take the scraps deer and turkey hunters leave us on the whims of our misinformed biologists.  You don’t run bear in the mountains with good dogs in the heat or you don’t have dogs for long.  I’ve lived it for too long.  Yes, you can run trashy crap that boo hoos around and isn’t running hard enough to catch but not real run to catch bear dogs.  Pop ups are great but the bears that gut check a dog will cost you the lives of any real bear dogs in the crowd.  I’ve been South and hunted in the heat but it’s no comparison to a 16 hour bear race and fight in the mountains.  Summer hunting is a death sentence to hard driving bear catching dogs.
> Lastly, I’m a deer and Turkey hunter as well and I would never vote against or promote anyone else try and hinder or take anything away from another hunter.  Having said that, is it really unfair to give dog hunters their first 9 day hunt and the deer hunters only get a little over 110 days?
> Am I the only one laughing out loud at this ludicrous argument that you deer hunters are being slighted?


Very well said Sir ! Those south of us don't realize how much of our local lands is USFS ! And that they go by a completely different set of rules !


----------



## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> Very well said Sir ! Those south of us don't realize how much of our local lands is USFS ! And that they go by a completely different set of rules !


There's plenty of public opportunity  in middle ga From oconee, piedmont, and hundreds of thousands of acres of state lands. It's more of a money thing if you ask me, got the ? and you can hunt whatever whenever. I get what your saying but seems like some have an I'm better than you ego problem just because you walk uphill. Who cares that you grew up in them hills. Now I hunt there time to time get over it. I normally hunt far enough back you so called hill hunters don't have to worry bout coming across this flatlander anyway.


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> There's plenty of public opportunity  in middle ga From oconee, piedmont, and hundreds of thousands of acres of state lands. It's more of a money thing if you ask me, got the ? and you can hunt whatever whenever. I get what your saying but seems like some have an I'm better than you ego problem just because you walk uphill. Who cares that you grew up in them hills. Now I hunt there time to time get over it. I normally hunt far enough back you so called hill hunters don't have to worry bout coming across this flatlander anyway.



I think you misunderstand what we are saying. It has nothing to do with ego or thinking we are better than you. But, more to do with this is where we live and hunt year round and don’t need others that come up “from time to time” changing our lives for the betterment of themselves.  Come and enjoy, by all means.  Just leave it like you found it!


----------



## humdandy

Heath said:


> I see a lot of you would cut off your nose to spite your face.
> Unlike most of you with opinions about mountain hunting, I actually live in them and hunt them 5 or 6 days a week.  You’ll see no planted pines or corn kernels in my avatar.  No private land or farms bordering a hill and calling myself a mountain hunter.  Please stop interfering with our way of life.
> Us dog hunters had no say when bow season crept two weeks earlier 15 years ago and took those days away from us hog hunters.  We had no say when you took nearly 6 weeks of turkey season away from us and left us the last 3 weeks of heat to get dogs killed in.  When you make statements like “they can hunt anytime” it shows you are not a Mountain hunter nor do you know the laws as it pertains to hog and bear hunting with dogs in the Mountains.  Hog season is only year round for private land flatlanders and a few people who just go south and lease land.  We poor dumb mountain dog hunters have to take the scraps deer and turkey hunters leave us on the whims of our misinformed biologists.  You don’t run bear in the mountains with good dogs in the heat or you don’t have dogs for long.  I’ve lived it for too long.  Yes, you can run trashy crap that boo hoos around and isn’t running hard enough to catch but not real run to catch bear dogs.  Pop ups are great but the bears that gut check a dog will cost you the lives of any real bear dogs in the crowd.  I’ve been South and hunted in the heat but it’s no comparison to a 16 hour bear race and fight in the mountains.  Summer hunting is a death sentence to hard driving bear catching dogs.
> Lastly, I’m a deer and Turkey hunter as well and I would never vote against or promote anyone else try and hinder or take anything away from another hunter.  Having said that, is it really unfair to give dog hunters their first 9 day hunt and the deer hunters only get a little over 110 days?
> Am I the only one laughing out loud at this ludicrous argument that you deer hunters are being slighted?[/QUOTE/]
> 
> I see this as a hunting opportunity.  Did you





Heath said:


> I see a lot of you would cut off your nose to spite your face.
> Unlike most of you with opinions about mountain hunting, I actually live in them and hunt them 5 or 6 days a week.  You’ll see no planted pines or corn kernels in my avatar.  No private land or farms bordering a hill and calling myself a mountain hunter.  Please stop interfering with our way of life.
> Us dog hunters had no say when bow season crept two weeks earlier 15 years ago and took those days away from us hog hunters.  We had no say when you took nearly 6 weeks of turkey season away from us and left us the last 3 weeks of heat to get dogs killed in.  When you make statements like “they can hunt anytime” it shows you are not a Mountain hunter nor do you know the laws as it pertains to hog and bear hunting with dogs in the Mountains.  Hog season is only year round for private land flatlanders and a few people who just go south and lease land.  We poor dumb mountain dog hunters have to take the scraps deer and turkey hunters leave us on the whims of our misinformed biologists.  You don’t run bear in the mountains with good dogs in the heat or you don’t have dogs for long.  I’ve lived it for too long.  Yes, you can run trashy crap that boo hoos around and isn’t running hard enough to catch but not real run to catch bear dogs.  Pop ups are great but the bears that gut check a dog will cost you the lives of any real bear dogs in the crowd.  I’ve been South and hunted in the heat but it’s no comparison to a 16 hour bear race and fight in the mountains.  Summer hunting is a death sentence to hard driving bear catching dogs.
> Lastly, I’m a deer and Turkey hunter as well and I would never vote against or promote anyone else try and hinder or take anything away from another hunter.  Having said that, is it really unfair to give dog hunters their first 9 day hunt and the deer hunters only get a little over 110 days?
> Am I the only one laughing out loud at this ludicrous argument that you deer hunters are being slighted?


You have the same bow hunting opportunities I have.  Did you take advantage of them?  I see this as an opportunity to get other hunters involved in hunting bears with dogs.  I for one cant wait.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> I think you misunderstand what we are saying. It has nothing to do with ego or thinking we are better than you. But, more to do with this is where we live and hunt year round and don’t need others that come up “from time to time” changing our lives for the betterment of themselves.  Come and enjoy, by all means.  Just leave it like you found it!


If I leave it like I found it there wouldn't be a dog season period. Your argument makes no sense sir please reevaluate. Georgia is georgia no matter what part of it you squat so opinions are like holes every body's got one. My opinions no more important than yours but im still allowed to have it. I can understand having no say in Tennessee or whatever but you guys are going a little overboard. I pay my state of GEORGIA taxes every year.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> There's plenty of public opportunity  in middle ga From oconee, piedmont, and hundreds of thousands of acres of state lands. It's more of a money thing if you ask me, got the ? and you can hunt whatever whenever. I get what your saying but seems like some have an I'm better than you ego problem just because you walk uphill. Who cares that you grew up in them hills. Now I hunt there time to time get over it. I normally hunt far enough back you so called hill hunters don't have to worry bout coming across this flatlander anyway.


What I was trying to say everything around here is public lands !! And that the USFS has a different set of rules than private land when it comes to dogs. I would willing to bet that there is not anywhere in Rabun County that gov't land is not 2 miles away !! Might be less than that !!


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> If I leave it like I found it there wouldn't be a dog season period. Your argument makes no sense sir please reevaluate. Georgia is georgia no matter what part of it you squat so opinions are like holes every body's got one. My opinions no more important than yours but im still allowed to have it. I can understand having no say in Tennessee or whatever but you guys are going a little overboard. I pay my state of GEORGIA taxes every year.[
> 
> States are divided by game management regions for a reason.  What works in one doesn’t in another.  I get to hunt other regions “from time to time” myself but don’t feel I should have a say in how they are governed or that they should cater to me in any way.  For that matter, I don’t feel as though my own region should cater to me.  It should be run in a manner that supports the healthiest environment for all game and hunters alike with equal opportunity for all. That’s not been the case for awhile now!
> It’s funny how our opinions are equal until it’s something you don’t like.
> We received a small 9 day trial hunt on 50,000 acres out of 800,000 and you boys absolutely lose your mind.  And you are gonna put in and take up quota space from others that have waited decades for this opportunity when you can simply hunt any of the other 750,000 acres.
> Oh, and I bowhunt only.  Right on through gun season.  I have over 3 months of deer season which is way more than enough to get the job done.


----------



## Christian hughey

Seems like your just looking for a rant I said I have no problem with the hunt, the timing sucks yeah but I realize when it boils down to it we don't have much of a say so anyways. Most of the time their minds are already made up about these public opinion meetings. Get over yourself I have the right to hunt ANYWHERE in georgia, ANYTIME and I believe your mistaken about the reasoning behind the game management zones but you keep thinking that because at the end of the day your opinion is as relevant as my dogs.
 Happy Hunting though.


----------



## Buckman18

Mercy.

Seems like an easy solution would be to move it back 2 weeks, and it would coincide with the end of bow season and the first rifle hunt. Personally, I couldn’t care less if that interferes with the dog season in NC or TN. They have their state and this is ours. I shouldn’t have to give up one second of my life to appeal to them and vice versa.

A couple other thoughts:


1. It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens when the dogs run over into the settlement surrounding those WMA’s. Very many of those folks are transplanted yankee doodles who located here via Florida or metro Atlanta.

B. Did I actually read above that dogs go to dying in the heat? I’ve dog hunted for 26 years in NC and training season starts August 15 - haven’t had a dog croak out yet unless a hog or bear ripped him open. 

D. Seems like an easy solution would be to move it back 2 weeks, and it would coincide with the end of bow season and the first rifle hunt. (Hate to sound repetitive, but DANG IT MAN this is common sense)...


----------



## Raylander

Gets hot in OCT sometimes too..

As stated the timing was poorly planned. Them properties ain’t that big. Don’t take long and your on NF (outside WMA), private property, and/or crossing State HWYS.. As we all know, dogs can’t read no trespassing signs and there colorblind so the yellow paint on the trees is worthless. That is a very busy time of the year for everyone around. It will get interesting fast! 

All that said, I have no experience hunting with dogs. I hope the hounds get a run! Good luck fellas!


----------



## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> Mercy.
> 
> Seems like an easy solution would be to move it back 2 weeks, and it would coincide with the end of bow season and the first rifle hunt. Personally, I couldn’t care less if that interferes with the dog season in NC or TN. They have their state and this is ours. I shouldn’t have to give up one second of my life to appeal to them and vice versa.
> 
> A couple other thoughts:
> 
> 
> 1. It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens when the dogs run over into the settlement surrounding those WMA’s. Very many of those folks are transplanted yankee doodles who located here via Florida or metro Atlanta.
> 
> B. Did I actually read above that dogs go to dying in the heat? I’ve dog hunted for 26 years in NC and training season starts August 15 - haven’t had a dog croak out yet unless a hog or bear ripped him open.
> 
> D. Seems like an easy solution would be to move it back 2 weeks, and it would coincide with the end of bow season and the first rifle hunt. (Hate to sound repetitive, but DANG IT MAN this is common sense)...



That comment was for those proposing July and Aug bear seasons.  
You’ve really bear hunted for 26 years and never saw a dog heat stroke?
Must be catching them off races before it gets to hot or treeing pop ups 90% of the time.  I’ve lost and seen many, but I don’t ride roads either.  Mine finish what we start and if you hunt much a 90 pounder is gonna wind check a dog!

I don’t understand why we couldn’t move 3 weeks or 4 even into November.  Let us have some good weather to hunt in too. Maybe open it on all USFS land Wait there I go being selfish again.  

I do agree about the tracts of land being to small.  It’s destined to fail.  I’d be all for a 4-6 dog limit and groups no more than 3-4.  That would help alleviate some of the problems I foresee. The land is nowhere near big enough for the amount of people that could possibly draw much less if they bring as many as allowed.


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> Seems like your just looking for a rant I said I have no problem with the hunt, the timing sucks yeah but I realize when it boils down to it we don't have much of a say so anyways. Most of the time their minds are already made up about these public opinion meetings. Get over yourself I have the right to hunt ANYWHERE in georgia, ANYTIME and I believe your mistaken about the reasoning behind the game management zones but you keep thinking that because at the end of the day your opinion is as relevant as my dogs. Happy Hunting though.



Imagine a Democrat getting mad and throwing a hissy, even cussing.  And now my opinion matters less than yours.
Thanks for the illustration of why decisions should be made by sound minded individuals.
Please enlighten us as to the other reason Georgia is divided into so many different sub-regions.  Last time I heard our biologist speak, those were his exact words.  We have to divide it so we can regulate each region separately and make adjustments as it pertains to what each area needs specifically.  Of course that paraphrased.  But I would love to hear your myth buster Wikipedia answer!
And yes I love a good rant.  We mountain folks have remained quiet long enough.  If we don’t stand up for ourselves we will end up like you soft foots!


----------



## Unicoidawg

All right guys discussion is good, but keep it on the cool side.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Imagine a Democrat getting mad and throwing a hissy, even cussing.  And now my opinion matters less than yours.
> Thanks for the illustration of why decisions should be made by sound minded individuals.
> Please enlighten us as to the other reason Georgia is divided into so many different sub-regions.  Last time I heard our biologist speak, those were his exact words.  We have to divide it so we can regulate each region separately and make adjustments as it pertains to what each area needs specifically.  Of course that paraphrased.  But I would love to hear your myth buster Wikipedia answer!
> And yes I love a good rant.  We mountain folks have remained quiet long enough.  If we don’t stand up for ourselves we will end up like you soft foots!


All i get from this is you wanna call names. If that's your thing cool. Our state is subdivided to manage each sections WILDLIFES NEEDS not HILLBILLY NEEDS. You don't even know what your standing up for yourself for. ? get real bud. Also democrats need not be brought into any conversation on this forum their not worth mention.


----------



## Christian hughey

Unicoidawg said:


> All right guys discussion is good, but keep it on the cool side.


Sorry sir keepin it cool!


----------



## Heath

Heath said:


> We have to divide it so we can regulate each region separately and make adjustments as it pertains to what each area needs specifically.



Seems as though you didn’t read the last one.
I’m a hillbilly now?
my opinion is as relevant as your dogs what?  
I thought our opinions were equally important.  I hate for the thread to be jeopardized because two hard heads cant just agree to disagree.

I’ll try again.  I feel like I may have been unclear.  Bear numbers are far too high. and have been for a long time.  DNR, USFS, biologist as well have spent more time responding to bear complaints through the late spring and summer than being able to do their jobs.  That’s what a few have said,  so yes it’s just second hand gossip but it matches up with what the rest of us locals have seen as well.  It seems they have taken all avenues and data sources into consideration.  They have tried,over the past few years, to extend bear season and increase bag limits and increase overall opportunity to decrease bear numbers.  They have now taken another approach or attempt in order to regain control of a real problem.  When numbers of any animal are to high or to low, all species suffer to some degree.  So this is very much so a regional decision to try and give more balance to our ecosystem.  Which, in theory, will be a step in the right direction for all wildlife.  
That is why I said cut off your nose to spite your face in my original post.  Deer hunters want more deer.  Me too! Dog hunters have been desperately wanting to have a kill season.    It’s a win win for everyone if it works out.  But, some would rather protest a 9 day hunt on a minute fraction of the available land to hunt.  It just makes no sense when it could very much so help you in the long run.

Relax, this is just trial run for the biologist to study the outcome.  If it works it could benefit all game animals in years to come.  It’s not the only thing that needs fixed but it is a step in the right direction for all hunters here on the mountain.  

A for real scenario-  what if it drastically helps the deer herd?  Would you give up 9 days of deer season every year to have much better deer hunting and opportunity for the duration of your hunting career?  Surely we all could agree that would be great?


----------



## strothershwacker

Agree to disagree. I dont think any opinions are gonna be changed here. So why keep at esch other. Ya'll done built a wall tween each side, now yer just banging yer heads against it.


----------



## Heath

strothershwacker said:


> Agree to disagree. I dont think any opinions are gonna be changed here. So why keep at esch other. Ya'll done built a wall tween each side, now yer just banging yer heads against it.



You are correct.  It’s just that we’ve actually tore down a wall that was built to keep many of us from participating for a long time.  We should all celebrate that we live in a state where our hunting opportunities are growing.  Many places have lost that privilege.  It is not a rite, but a privilege granted to us by the state.  We all need to be mindful of that and keep pushing to further it at any opportunity.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Seems as though you didn’t read the last one.
> I’m a hillbilly now?
> my opinion is as relevant as your dogs what?
> I thought our opinions were equally important.  I hate for the thread to be jeopardized because two hard heads cant just agree to disagree.
> 
> I’ll try again.  I feel like I may have been unclear.  Bear numbers are far too high. and have been for a long time.  DNR, USFS, biologist as well have spent more time responding to bear complaints through the late spring and summer than being able to do their jobs.  That’s what a few have said,  so yes it’s just second hand gossip but it matches up with what the rest of us locals have seen as well.  It seems they have taken all avenues and data sources into consideration.  They have tried,over the past few years, to extend bear season and increase bag limits and increase overall opportunity to decrease bear numbers.  They have now taken another approach or attempt in order to regain control of a real problem.  When numbers of any animal are to high or to low, all species suffer to some degree.  So this is very much so a regional decision to try and give more balance to our ecosystem.  Which, in theory, will be a step in the right direction for all wildlife.
> That is why I said cut off your nose to spite your face in my original post.  Deer hunters want more deer.  Me too! Dog hunters have been desperately wanting to have a kill season.    It’s a win win for everyone if it works out.  But, some would rather protest a 9 day hunt on a minute fraction of the available land to hunt.  It just makes no sense when it could very much so help you in the long run.
> 
> Relax, this is just trial run for the biologist to study the outcome.  If it works it could benefit all game animals in years to come.  It’s not the only thing that needs fixed but it is a step in the right direction for all hunters here on the mountain.
> 
> A for real scenario-  what if it drastically helps the deer herd?  Would you give up 9 days of deer season every year to have much better deer hunting and opportunity for the duration of your hunting career?  Surely we all could agree that would be great?


They won't let me say **** so poot and I guess if you wanna throw names around like soft, I will too. I agree with you about control of the population and doin what is necessary but im also with the others that say we are interested to see how it turns out. If I get an invite I will be on the trail with you. Not protesting the hunt just stating that I don't like the timing and yes my opinions equal to yours, neither is worth a dogs poot when it comes down to it. I also think running dogs for 9 days will hurt the following hunts held on those properties but we will see, like you said it's minute when you think of the vast terrain they have to roam. I'm still pushing for that spring bear season. I don't know who's arm we're gonna have to twist to get that go'in.


----------



## livinoutdoors

Good lord! This bear doggin thing is getting out of control! Just be happy we still live in a hunter friendly state, for now!


----------



## Heath

Now that we’ve gotten over our misunderstanding,  why are you so upset about the dates?
It’s not going to negatively effect any hunting following the hunt.  That’s propaganda spread by TV and none dog hunters to push their agenda.  Please don’t buy into it.  Every dog hunter I know is a deer hunter too and they deer hunt the same places they bear, hog, or coon hunt.  Heck, I have 2 or 3 that use me as a turkey finder and my father has killed quite a few great deer I told him about the morning after I found sign in a place.  I know it’s a popular excuse that we all hear but it’s just not true.  There’s actually scientifically published data that supports me.
You do realize the biologist have started taking deer days away from public mountain land because the numbers are in such decline.  It’s a great step,  it needs cut way back even more.  
They also spend gobs of money trapping and killing hogs but yet still won’t  let us hunt them with dogs at night or on any WMA at any time. It’s ridiculous to me that they spend money on that and just eradicate them when there are scores of us that actually eat them and help thin them out if we were given that opportunity.  
Lots of room for improvement when it comes to mountain game management. I’m just glad they are finally taking some steps in an attempt to rehabilitate it.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Heath said:


> Now that we’ve gotten over our misunderstanding,  why are you so upset about the dates?
> It’s not going to negatively effect any hunting following the hunt.  That’s propaganda spread by TV and none dog hunters to push their agenda.  Please don’t buy into it.  Every dog hunter I know is a deer hunter too and they deer hunt the same places they bear, hog, or coon hunt.  Heck, I have 2 or 3 that use me as a turkey finder and my father has killed quite a few great deer I told him about the morning after I found sign in a place.  I know it’s a popular excuse that we all hear but it’s just not true.  There’s actually scientifically published data that supports me.
> You do realize the biologist have started taking deer days away from public mountain land because the numbers are in such decline.  It’s a great step,  it needs cut way back even more.
> They also spend gobs of money trapping and killing hogs but yet still won’t  let us hunt them with dogs at night or on any WMA at any time. It’s ridiculous to me that they spend money on that and just eradicate them when there are scores of us that actually eat them and help thin them out if we were given that opportunity.
> Lots of room for improvement when it comes to mountain game management. I’m just glad they are finally taking some steps in an attempt to rehabilitate it.


It is my understanding you can't take pigs on WMA with a dog. It is also my understanding  you can't take hogs on any public (USFS) lands with a dog.


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## Heath

We can hunt hogs with dogs on USFS lands any time bear and hog training season coincides with a open game animal season.  We have to use firearms legal for that game species. 
Years ago we were able to hunt during any game season except firearms deer season then they made this official training season which shortened us out of bow season and all but the last 3 weeks of turkey season.
No hunting at night. And no WMA’s except a few trial quota hunts a few years ago and supposedly we can hunt during this new coyote and hog season in May on WMA’s but one game warden says we can and another says we can’t.  The printed regulations still say we can’t!

It’s a common misconception though and really wordy. Other states have far easier to comprehend printed laws.


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## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Now that we’ve gotten over our misunderstanding,  why are you so upset about the dates?
> It’s not going to negatively effect any hunting following the hunt.  That’s propaganda spread by TV and none dog hunters to push their agenda.  Please don’t buy into it.  Every dog hunter I know is a deer hunter too and they deer hunt the same places they bear, hog, or coon hunt.  Heck, I have 2 or 3 that use me as a turkey finder and my father has killed quite a few great deer I told him about the morning after I found sign in a place.  I know it’s a popular excuse that we all hear but it’s just not true.  There’s actually scientifically published data that supports me.
> You do realize the biologist have started taking deer days away from public mountain land because the numbers are in such decline.  It’s a great step,  it needs cut way back even more.
> They also spend gobs of money trapping and killing hogs but yet still won’t  let us hunt them with dogs at night or on any WMA at any time. It’s ridiculous to me that they spend money on that and just eradicate them when there are scores of us that actually eat them and help thin them out if we were given that opportunity.
> Lots of room for improvement when it comes to mountain game management. I’m just glad they are finally taking some steps in an attempt to rehabilitate it.


    The first few weeks from my experience has been the best time to find them low and in numbers and that cuts a few weeks of good hunting to two weeks. Once the early gun hunt hits its too crowded for me, time to pack up and go national forest. I think if it were pushed back to the weekend after the early gun hunt or muzzleloader week everyone would be happy with it and the dogs will still find the bears. All the coyotes don't help either, fawn numbers are low and I found a fawns front leg and shoulder laying in the trail back to my stand last weekend. Coyotes have been tough to call this year no luck yet.


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> The first few weeks from my experience has been the best time to find them low and in numbers and that cuts a few weeks of good hunting to two weeks. Once the early gun hunt hits its too crowded for me, time to pack up and go national forest. I think if it were pushed back to the weekend after the early gun hunt or muzzleloader week everyone would be happy with it and the dogs will still find the bears. All the coyotes don't help either, fawn numbers are low and I found a fawns front leg and shoulder laying in the trail back to my stand last weekend. Coyotes have been tough to call this year no luck yet.



I’m being serious and not poking fun at you but you really should focus on National forest land outside of WMAs more anyway.  WMAs are nothing more than a boundary line.  No more game in them than on the outside.  I’ve yet to see a valid reason for them to still be in existence.


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## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> I’m being serious and not poking fun at you but you really should focus on National forest land outside of WMAs more anyway.  WMAs are nothing more than a boundary line.  No more game in them than on the outside.  I’ve yet to see a valid reason for them to still be in existence.


Not really a matter of where the game is I enjoy hunting the lower elevations of these wmas. Easier setups, nicer scenery and that time of year, that's where its at. Also better managed for game with well used plots that national forest do not have. I do not directly hunt over plots but I do use them to determine travel routes also the added ? tree or two I've found seem to keep me goin back.


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## Buckman18

Heath said:


> You do realize the biologist have started taking deer days away from public mountain land because the numbers are in such decline.  It’s a great step,  it needs cut way back even more.



Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree more about cutting back deer season on the NF. If the deer limit in the mountains is two, twelve, or forty, it’s not going to make much of a difference. The number of doe days in the mountains are, thankfully, so few, that no one is going to legally harvest many does anyway. In the lower elevations of the mountain counties, there are plenty of deer around the settlement, just not up on the high ridges of the NF. And, let’s not forget that the overwhelming majority of the NF that is more than a 1/4 mile deep NEVER sees a deer hunter. That said, I’ve killed many a mature buck on those high ridges, what they lack in numbers they make up for in age structure. It’s lonely at the top in the cold of December, but the eatin’ is good. 

Reducing hunter opportunity in the mountains is not the answer. The NF gets so little hunting pressure, hunters impact is negligible. For those of us who also hunt the Mtn of NC, most would agree that the GA mountains have far more deer, even now, than NC. The NC season is a whopping 3 weeks and has been for decades. I think GA has the hunting seasons set perfectly. Just need to add spring bear, and get rid of more hogs.


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## tree cutter 08

And keep management areas in place. They ain't what they could be but it's nice to go hunt a place that you know hasn't been hunted that season. Spring bear season would be the way to. No reason not to. Early spring before it gets hot.


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## Buckman18

tree cutter 08 said:


> And keep management areas in place. They ain't what they could be but it's nice to go hunt a place that you know hasn't been hunted that season. Spring bear season would be the way to. No reason not to. Early spring before it gets hot.



This, and better road access.


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## Christian hughey

Buckman18 said:


> This, and better road access.


I feel we won't be getting much access. More for them to have to patrol. Warden told me last season they were stretched thin due to wardens still working the lakes and the hurricane relief. Had to ride 40 mins in the heat of bow season to the nearest wma that an officer was available to have him tagged after the hours it took to get him out by myself. They should definitely make it easier to tag em.


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## tree cutter 08

Christian hughey said:


> I feel we won't be getting much access. More for them to have to patrol. Warden told me last season they were stretched thin due to wardens still working the lakes and the hurricane relief. Had to ride 40 mins in the heat of bow season to the nearest wma that an officer was available to have him tagged after the hours it took to get him out by myself. They should definitely make it easier to tag em.


It's aggregating to have them tagged but last several I've killed its either been on a management hunt and check station was open or they have come to the house. I just tell them where its at if I ain't there. The local wildlife tech's are A+!


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## Buckman18

tree cutter 08 said:


> It's aggregating to have them tagged but last several I've killed its either been on a management hunt and check station was open or they have come to the house. I just tell them where its at if I ain't there. The local wildlife tech's are A+!



This is true. Not sure if it’s appropriate to name them, but the local guys in Habersham, Towns, Rabun, and White are top notch.


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## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree more about cutting back deer season on the NF. If the deer limit in the mountains is two, twelve, or forty, it’s not going to make much of a difference. The number of doe days in the mountains are, thankfully, so few, that no one is going to legally harvest many does anyway. In the lower elevations of the mountain counties, there are plenty of deer around the settlement, just not up on the high ridges of the NF. And, let’s not forget that the overwhelming majority of the NF that is more than a 1/4 mile deep NEVER sees a deer hunter. That said, I’ve killed many a mature buck on those high ridges, what they lack in numbers they make up for in age structure. It’s lonely at the top in the cold of December, but the eatin’ is good.
> 
> Reducing hunter opportunity in the mountains is not the answer. The NF gets so little hunting pressure, hunters impact is negligible. For those of us who also hunt the Mtn of NC, most would agree that the GA mountains have far more deer, even now, than NC. The NC season is a whopping 3 weeks and has been for decades. I think GA has the hunting seasons set perfectly. Just need to add spring bear, and get rid of more hogs.



I guess it must depend on our own points of view.  When I grew up we had no deer in western NC.  It was big news if someone saw a buck.   Now, Macon county has far better deer hunting than I see here.  I actually prefer hunting up home over here because of it.  Less pressure and more food equal better hunting.  Macon county doesn’t have more food,  but they sure have a lot less pressure.  

I’m not saying deer don’t exist still but they have fallen off drastically in the last 15-20 years.  The only consistent is bear numbers exploding.  I don’t agree that hogs have much to do with it.  They’ve been here for longer than most are aware of.  They were here in certain places when deer were thicker. They have spread out in other areas they weren’t typically in but that’s about it.

Here’s another question I’ve always wondered?  Why spend so much time and effort trying to establish deer when they are never going to thrive in the mountains anyway.  Seems it would make more sense to work with what we have and have proven we can support.   Bear and hog country is what this is,  it will support them in large numbers, why not cultivate it instead of eradicating them to make room for something else.  Just something I’ve never understood.


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## tree cutter 08

Heath said:


> I guess it must depend on our own points of view.  When I grew up we had no deer in western NC.  It was big news if someone saw a buck.   Now, Macon county has far better deer hunting than I see here.  I actually prefer hunting up home over here because of it.  Less pressure and more food equal better hunting.  Macon county doesn’t have more food,  but they sure have a lot less pressure.
> 
> I’m not saying deer don’t exist still but they have fallen off drastically in the last 15-20 years.  The only consistent is bear numbers exploding.  I don’t agree that hogs have much to do with it.  They’ve been here for longer than most are aware of.  They were here in certain places when deer were thicker. They have spread out in other areas they weren’t typically in but that’s about it.
> 
> Here’s another question I’ve always wondered?  Why spend so much time and effort trying to establish deer when they are never going to thrive in the mountains anyway.  Seems it would make more sense to work with what we have and have proven we can support.   Bear and hog country is what this is,  it will support them in large numbers, why not cultivate it instead of eradicating them to make room for something else.  Just something I’ve never understood.


I like bear meat better than deer. Don't care much for the hogs. With that said I'd rather hunt deer any day of the week. I just don't get into bear hunting like deer hunting. I think the vast majority of folks that hunt the mountains feel the same way. I will agree with you that we have to many bears and I do think that's a good portion of the problem. The deer population just can't stand 2 different predators. If either bears or yotes were gone I think the population would grow again. Yotes are here to stay but bear numbers can be controlled better. I hope the dogging season goes well and everyone has fun but it's not the way to get numbers down. If it was nc wouldn't have as many bears as it does. Supposedly they have about 4 times the population as ga if the numbers are accurate.


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## Buckman18

Heath said:


> I guess it must depend on our own points of view.  When I grew up we had no deer in western NC.  It was big news if someone saw a buck.   Now, Macon county has far better deer hunting than I see here.  I actually prefer hunting up home over here because of it.  Less pressure and more food equal better hunting.  Macon county doesn’t have more food,  but they sure have a lot less pressure.
> 
> I’m not saying deer don’t exist still but they have fallen off drastically in the last 15-20 years.  The only consistent is bear numbers exploding.  I don’t agree that hogs have much to do with it.  They’ve been here for longer than most are aware of.  They were here in certain places when deer were thicker. They have spread out in other areas they weren’t typically in but that’s about it.
> 
> Here’s another question I’ve always wondered?  Why spend so much time and effort trying to establish deer when they are never going to thrive in the mountains anyway.  Seems it would make more sense to work with what we have and have proven we can support.   Bear and hog country is what this is,  it will support them in large numbers, why not cultivate it instead of eradicating them to make room for something else.  Just something I’ve never understood.



Again, I disagree with the premise of your message. I've never deer hunted in Macon County, and have only bear hunted there if that's where the dogs ended up after being turned loose near Buck Creek, but I have been all over Clay and Cherokee Counties. There used to be scads of deer in Fires Creek and Buck Creek.  My parents tell me stories from the 60's-70's of seeing dozens when riding through Fires Creek, and all the campsites around Buck Creek being filled up with deer hanging in many on opening week. Today, there are very few deer in either of those mountain ranges and, instead, plenty around the settlement. Bears are all over those areas now, and then weren't nearly as common.

 In Georgia, same story regarding Chattahoochee, Swallow Creek, Lake Burton and other nearby WMA's.  You should take some time to research the harvest records on these WMA's before the late 80's, and I think you will see that your claim about deer never going to thrive in the mountains is simply not accurate. Bears are cool. We value bears. They certainly have their place. But good deer hunting is what the overwhelming majority of us in the mountains prefer, and would prefer a bear sighting as an occasional bonus instead of the expectation they have become.


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## greg_n_clayton

Heath said:


> We can hunt hogs with dogs on USFS lands any time bear and hog training season coincides with a open game animal season.  We have to use firearms legal for that game species.
> Years ago we were able to hunt during any game season except firearms deer season then they made this official training season which shortened us out of bow season and all but the last 3 weeks of turkey season.
> No hunting at night. And no WMA’s except a few trial quota hunts a few years ago and supposedly we can hunt during this new coyote and hog season in May on WMA’s but one game warden says we can and another says we can’t.  The printed regulations still say we can’t!
> 
> It’s a common misconception though and really wordy. Other states have far easier to comprehend printed laws.


Tell me where it says I can hunt and take hogs with dogs on USFS land please.


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## JN86

greg_n_clayton said:


> Tell me where it says I can hunt and take hogs with dogs on USFS land please.


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## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> Again, I disagree with the premise of your message. I've never deer hunted in Macon County, and have only bear hunted there if that's where the dogs ended up after being turned loose near Buck Creek, but I have been all over Clay and Cherokee Counties. There used to be scads of deer in Fires Creek and Buck Creek.  My parents tell me stories from the 60's-70's of seeing dozens when riding through Fires Creek, and all the campsites around Buck Creek being filled up with deer hanging in many on opening week. Today, there are very few deer in either of those mountain ranges and, instead, plenty around the settlement. Bears are all over those areas now, and then weren't nearly as common.
> 
> In Georgia, same story regarding Chattahoochee, Swallow Creek, Lake Burton and other nearby WMA's.  You should take some time to research the harvest records on these WMA's before the late 80's, and I think you will see that your claim about deer never going to thrive in the mountains is simply not accurate. Bears are cool. We value bears. They certainly have their place. But good deer hunting is what the overwhelming majority of us in the mountains prefer, and would prefer a bear sighting as an occasional bonus instead of the expectation they have become.



Again,  same thing here.  Hearing second hand isn’t research it’s wives tales.  I have equally as many resources that say different about the same areas you speak of.  I didn’t hear people, I grew up in it.  Buck creek is loaded with deer right now!  Actually,  I have a friend who buys his out of state license to deer hunt where you say there aren’t deer.  That area really doesn’t count anyway because Rainbow springs is a huge tract that was privately ran and hunted for the last 45 years. That I know of for certain.   It’s kinda an outlier when you talk about mountain hunting because it’s not normal circumstances.  Heck we never used to have to break dogs off deer cause there weren’t any to run anyway!

I think old management numbers show there were some deer before the bear explosion, they weren’t thick, just at a normal level.  Now they are extremely thin.  What was it 2 or 3 years ago, only like 15 bucks taken off 4 or 5 mountain WMAS combined.  That’s like around 100,000 acres with 15 bucks tagged out.  I can kill that many in Clay county in a week now.

I thought everyone knew the bear numbers are wrong.  Have you actually been and watched how they surmise these numbers?  It’s laughable to say the least.

With all due respect,  I think your view of history is clouded by what you want to see or want me to see.  Every historical book states that deer were basically eradicated in our area during the fur market days.  Every one on every side of where you claim there used to be scores of deer says they didn’t even know people deer hunted because there just weren’t many.  I’m gonna guess your relatives are talking about down around Chunky Gal and the bottoms seeing deer in the early 90’s in those fields.???
That’s right after the major restocking and closing of deer season because the biologists feared the deer wouldn’t survive. 
Didn’t north Georgia have a similar restocking by Smithgal? Because deer numbers were obsolete?  Maybe 60’s or something like that. You can’t just choose certain time frames because they line up with the data you want to portray.  There’s always been an ebb and flo of game.  Mostly due to food, habitat, and predators.  We can’t do much to alter habitat now that the feds put a stop to that.  The mast is always changing some years it’s great and some years not.  The only thing you can do easily is control predators.  Bear, coyotes, and you and I.


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## greg_n_clayton

JN86 said:


> View attachment 971847


Ok. If I am reading correctly, I can only kill the pig if it is "training season " and it is open season for other game ? I will hunt me up a calendar and match the training dates with small game dates.


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## JN86

greg_n_clayton said:


> Ok. If I am reading correctly, I can only kill the pig if it is "training season " and it is open season for other game ?


That's correct.


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## greg_n_clayton

JN86 said:


> That's correct.


I edited my last post about matching up the training and small game dates.


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## Heath

The game management sections of State are charged with keeping all wildlife numbers in balance.  That’s the whole reason we invented the Game Warden position along with seasons and bag limits.  Throughout history at different times animals were hunted for food, trade, depredation, and sport.  At this time we are in need of more take of certain animals and less take of another to help regulate numbers.  It’s a fairly simple concept.  Yes, hunting bear with dogs can be a highly productive method and help with that problem.  Still hunting alone just isn’t getting the job done.

Another note about population numbers.  Don’t put to much stock in population estimates.  They are often wrong.  I was reading a study about some Gorilla that many more scientists and biologists were working on than a state department employs.  They estimated that there were only like a 1,000 left and on the brink of extinction.  Then they found like 5,000 or something.  It’s been to long since I read it but it was a huge margin of error!


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## Heath

I heard that as well,  just another smoke and mirrors by the state to do away with us dog hunters.  Give us 9 days and take away 21.  Make us think we win but we got the shaft again.


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## Heath

Have you had confrontations with turkey hunters?  I don’t see anyone hunting the mountains anymore.  I see a few opening weekend and maybe one or two when they are gobbling but Ive saw as many hog hunters as turkey hunters the past few years.  Why does one take precedence over the other.  If turkey hunters wanted more turkeys, it looks like they would welcome hog hunters.  But, it’s not about bettering the wildlife. It’s about me me me me me.....


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## tree cutter 08

RaCoHunter said:


> Well I’ll tell you the honest truth, I’ve been on both sides. I was hunting this past May and we had an absolute tear down one morning. Dogs cold trailed one a long ways and ended up going several miles from where we turned out. Went to a different road to try to cut the hog off and there was a truck parked where we wanted to be. We went up the road and could hear this guy working a bird that was fired up a few hundred yards off the road. Not long after that the dogs walked the hog right over top of the gobbler and ruined it for him. He was pretty upset to say the least.
> 
> I’ve also been the turkey hunter as well though. Used to turkey hunt FS lands above Lake Rabun and the old Burton WMA a lot. Had many, many instances where I would get in early and set up on a bird, then have somebody dump the box right where my truck was parked shortly after. Turkeys don’t like it a whole lot when 20 plotts on a hot track race under their tree. Them places have gotten real popular with dog hunters in the past several years so I avoid them if I want to turkey hunt.
> 
> As I get up in age I seem to understand other people’s point of view a lot more than I used to when I was younger. I don’t want to lose the May season, but I can see why it would happen. A kill season for bear seems like an even trade for the May season when I look at it from other perspectives. This kill season is a lot bigger win for the houndsmen than I think we realize. I think the state is really sticking their necks out for us on this. I would much rather have an opportunity at 10 days to kill a bear with hounds, than the 15 days you can kill a hog during the May season. I don’t even hunt the last part of it because you can’t kill a hog if you get on one.


You are correct about the conflicts in both sides. That area gets dogged pretty hard seems like. I was on wildcat couple years ago early August towards the back. Seen 6 or 7 trucks with dog boxes parked that morning. All had nc tags. Didn't think dog season was open but don't keep track either.


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## jbogg

As has been said many times, the dog  Hunt need not be scheduled when it is. Back it up a few weeks and there would be a lot less Bow hunters raising Cane.  One of the main reasons the DNR stated as to doing away with the May training season was due to so many private property owner complaints  of dogs on their property.  I have heard and read of many a bear race going for several miles.   When the dogs get turned loose  on Trail Ridge road which is in the center of Chattahoochee WMA it’s only 1 to 2 miles up the hill and you are crossing the Appalachian Trail and off Of the WMA.  Can any of the dog hunters on here explain to me how you call off a pack of dogs once they have left the property where they are permitted to run?  It’s an honest question as I truly have no idea.  Seems like a recipe for even more conflict. There are lots of weekend backpackers on the AT that time of year.


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## jbogg

RaCoHunter said:


> I was also at the meeting and heard them say they wanted the hunt to be as high quality as possible for the houndsmen. That time of year is prime for bear movement which equals a better experience for us, which is why they did it. The houndsmen didn’t choose the timing of the hunt, so that’s not on us. I wish it would have worked out better for everyone  as I wouldn’t mind the hunt being moved back. I’m sorry it’s not that way though. I truly hope we can see past any disagreement because at the end of the day we’re all bear hunters no matter the method and we may end up with arms locked together fighting for any type of bear season one day soon.
> 
> As far as keeping dogs within an area there’s no foolproof way to do it. They can’t read or know they’re not supposed to go somewhere. You can reduce the chances of them leaving however.
> 
> Only turning out on hot tracks.
> 
> Hunting the core of a property.
> 
> Having dogs that run to catch the bear or hog, not run just to chase it. There’s a big difference.
> 
> Having good technology such as an Alpha system where you can tone recall your dogs. This means your dogs know to come back to you when you tone their collar. This is a questionable practice however as you can mess up a good dog quickly by shocking or toning at the wrong time or too often.
> 
> I don’t think this will be quite as big an issue as you may think. The way I understand it Chattahoochee and Chestatee are combined for the hunt and that’s a huge area. I don’t think I would have a problem keeping my dogs in an area that size. I have been wrong before though and like I said there are no guarantees.



 That’s a fair answer, and I appreciate your response. Make no mistake, my problem is not with hound hunters at all, but rather with the DNR‘s decision to schedule the hunt so early.  One of the hound hunters on this thread even commented on how tough the heat can be on dogs. Pushing the hunt back four  weeks would result in cooler temperatures For hunters as well as dogs, and the Bears are even more active In late October as they are deep into hyperphagia and moving more than ever in search of food.  I have never known any hound hunters, but I have always been intrigued by it. There is a group on YouTube called “The Untamed” who put out some very good content.   Their dog hunting videos are excellent. 

 I do not like to see anything that divides hunters. There are less of us every year according to hunting license sales, and if that does not change I fear that one day in the not so distant future our kids and grandchildren may not have the same  opportunities that we do to enjoy hunting on public ground.


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## livinoutdoors

Jbogg this last point you make is the most important imho. It might not feel like it when people are fightin over public land spots but hunting and the culture and values that surround it are quickly dissapearing. If you have never lived/worked near an urban/suburban area you might not see it but most young people want nothing to do with hunting and hunters. Heck they dont even want you to have the guns you hunt with. Small country towns with good people raisin good kids will be out voted by the masses of anti hunters bein raised in the cities. It seems like part of the problems the dog hunters face is the new people to the mountain communities who, to say the least see any kind of hunter as an ol hillbilly redneck that just wants to murder lil cute animals. You add in the fact the dogs sometimes cross property lines an here we go with calls and complaints. I support private property, but i dont feel like this would have been an issue a generation or so ago. I live in a foothills/upper piedmont county and all the old fellas that hunt talk about how you could just walk over to so and so place and hunt and not worry about it.this is most likely gone from most places in the south or anywhere. I do feel like they could have timed the dog hunts better but that ship has sailed for now. Maybe they will adjust it later so everybody wins. For now we need to stick together and make sure we are hunting with respect to each other and try to keep the bad apples from causing problems for the rest of us. Thanks for listenin!


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## goshenmountainman

RaCoHunter said:


> Well I’ll tell you the honest truth, I’ve been on both sides. I was hunting this past May and we had an absolute tear down one morning. Dogs cold trailed one a long ways and ended up going several miles from where we turned out. Went to a different road to try to cut the hog off and there was a truck parked where we wanted to be. We went up the road and could hear this guy working a bird that was fired up a few hundred yards off the road. Not long after that the dogs walked the hog right over top of the gobbler and ruined it for him. He was pretty upset to say the least.
> 
> I’ve also been the turkey hunter as well though. Used to turkey hunt FS lands above Lake Rabun and the old Burton WMA a lot. Had many, many instances where I would get in early and set up on a bird, then have somebody dump the box right where my truck was parked shortly after. Turkeys don’t like it a whole lot when 20 plotts on a hot track race under their tree. Them places have gotten real popular with dog hunters in the past several years so I avoid them if I want to turkey hunt.
> 
> As I get up in age I seem to understand other people’s point of view a lot more than I used to when I was younger. I don’t want to lose the May season, but I can see why it would happen. A kill season for bear seems like an even trade for the May season when I look at it from other perspectives. This kill season is a lot bigger win for the houndsmen than I think we realize. I think the state is really sticking their necks out for us on this. I would much rather have an opportunity at 10 days to kill a bear with hounds, than the 15 days you can kill a hog during the May season. I don’t even hunt the last part of it because you can’t kill a hog if you get on one.


That turkey hunter should have killed the hog and had way more meat than a little ole turkey, guys probably would have helped him get it to the road. That tom would have been there the next day but not the hog...


----------



## Heath

Used to be, when


RaCoHunter said:


> It wasn’t the fact that the hog ran him over, it was the fact that several hounds and curs fighting a hog spooked the gobbler and he flew to the next ridge a mile over. I don’t know if he ever had a shot at the hog anyways, he just wasn’t happy that we ruined his hunt. And if he is like me he doesn’t have the ability to hunt every day like we wish we could. At several times during my life I’ve only had one day a week to hunt. So if you only have one day then it doesn’t matter if that gobbler will be back there the next morning. I understand why he was upset, and he had every right to be. I looked at it from his perspective when it happened and I figured I would have felt the same way.



Totally agree! 
But you said you turned loose far from where he was hunting and bad luck just caused your paths to cross. I’m in agreement about people being disrespectful.  I know all to well about folks parking right beside my truck and helping themselves right in behind me.  My point is, it’s not just dog hunters as it happens to me far more by deer hunters during deer season.  Should we stop deer hunters because of the few bad apples or should we all be a little more respectful and realize we don’t live in our own little worlds and everyone should have to cater to me!!
   Trust me,  them boys don’t catch and release near as many as they let on.  What needs to happen, is put a stop to all the road riding and hunting in big gangs.  Then the problems would diminish greatly.  I hunt both,  but was taught by my daddy that everyone had the same rites as me.  I shouldn’t interfere with another mans hunt if I could help it and shouldn’t be too upset if mine gets messed up on accident.  But we don’t live in a world where decency is very abundant.  You think it’s fair to me that some punk messed up a Turkey hunt and now my season gets taken away.  Your fooled if you think they will stop with this.  They’ll come after the rest of it too!


----------



## jbogg

RaCoHunter said:


> One other thing. They may be taking the May season but this is the way I see that particular situation.
> We lose 23 days of hunting, however we gain 10 days of a kill season. Those 10 days to me are worth at least 30 days of training. Way more fun since we can actually take bears and a more kid friendly,less crowded experience with it being a quota hunt.
> 
> Now look at it from these bow hunters perspective. They lost 10 days of hunting. What did they gain from it? Nothing, nada, zilch. If this had happened to us houndsmen we would cry and scream bloody murder and say everyone hates us. I know because that’s what I would have done years ago.
> 
> The big picture is simple-Dog hunters lost but gained some back. Bow hunters lost and got nothing back. I don’t blame them for being upset! I would be too!



I appreciate your perspective since you have been on both sides of the fence.  I hunt with both bow and gun, and there are a lot of guys that like to hunt bear early with a bow when they are still climbing the white oaks.  The early rifle hunt starting just a week after the bow opener and then followed immediately by a ton of dog hunters for nine days makes the prospect of taking a bear with archery equipment an even tougher proposition unless a man is able to get it done in the first week.  Chattahoochee and Chestatee will get real small real fast with that many dogs running.  I understand that it won’t affect deer movement a few weeks later, but I would be surprised if there is a bear left on those two WMAs for the final two weeks of bow season which reopens the day after the dogs finish running.  The bears will resume their normal patterns within their normal range eventually, but it sure won’t happen overnight.  With that said I don’t blame the dog hunters and I wish them success.  Just wish the DNR had given a little more thought to the timing.


----------



## Heath

I’ve read enough to know you are not a dog hunter but someone playing both sides of the fence. 

I’m a bow hunter as well, and have lost nothing by this season change.  There is still ample opportunity all over as deer season didn’t close everywhere.

You’ve seen all these deer run down?  Where were you?  You didn’t have a dog in there pulling hair? 

This is bull hockey, spread by someone who just wants to act like a good guy but spread untruths.  Secret agenda huh?

I don’t hunt in groups and never have more than 3 dogs with me when alone.  Doesn’t take a tribe to catch a bear.  Just one bear dog! 

You haven’t seen healthy deer run down over and over again!  Maybe one or 2 gut shot or wounded deer over the years that were left by deer hunters up home. I know how this narrative goes,  you sir are a detriment to all hunters by spreading rumors and half-truths.  But I can read what you are actually wanting to say.  Some of us are not “fooled”.

You say you’ve seen it time and time again,  yet you are right there in the middle of it the next time and the next time!  When I see things I don’t approve of, I don’t participate anymore.  You speak like you don’t condone big groups but obviously that’s how you choose to hunt over and over again.  Then you are a “real Houndsmen” that just admitted to having to hunt in a big gang and runs deer down on a regular basis. 

I’m glad there are less Houndsmen like yourself than you realize!


----------



## j_seph

jbogg said:


> As has been said many times, the dog  Hunt need not be scheduled when it is. Back it up a few weeks and there would be a lot less Bow hunters raising Cane.  One of the main reasons the DNR stated as to doing away with the May training season was due to so many private property owner complaints  of dogs on their property.  I have heard and read of many a bear race going for several miles.   When the dogs get turned loose  on Trail Ridge road which is in the center of Chattahoochee WMA it’s only 1 to 2 miles up the hill and you are crossing the Appalachian Trail and off Of the WMA.  Can any of the dog hunters on here explain to me how you call off a pack of dogs once they have left the property where they are permitted to run?  It’s an honest question as I truly have no idea.  Seems like a recipe for even more conflict. There are lots of weekend backpackers on the AT that time of year.


Even if it were backed up a few weeks bow hunters would still have to come in behind them to hunt and one of the big things I have been reading on here is that bow season will suck trying to hunt after the dogs have ran them. SO do not see where this would fix anything for most of the bowhunters I have seen complaining.


----------



## goshenmountainman

RaCoHunter said:


> It wasn’t the fact that the hog ran him over, it was the fact that several hounds and curs fighting a hog spooked the gobbler and he flew to the next ridge a mile over. I don’t know if he ever had a shot at the hog anyways, he just wasn’t happy that we ruined his hunt. And if he is like me he doesn’t have the ability to hunt every day like we wish we could. At several times during my life I’ve only had one day a week to hunt. So if you only have one day then it doesn’t matter if that gobbler will be back there the next morning. I understand why he was upset, and he had every right to be. I looked at it from his perspective when it happened and I figured I would have felt the same way.


You never gonna please everyone, no matter what you do. It was just by chance that the hog took that path, can't control an ole hog any more than that gobbler he was working. Stuff happens all the time in the woods that men can't control, part of it, the exact same thing happened to me this spring while hunting turkeys. Had a gobbler hammering all morning, just across a big holler from me, heard some dogs running far off, they kept getting closer and wouldn't you know they run a big doe within 20 yds. of me and then right beside my bird. The dogs were three miles from their home and I knew them both when they came up, couldn't get them to stop and I was ****ed.. I quickly made my way to the top of the ridge above me and I call my UNCLE and tell him which way they were going and that he better catch them before they catch her. I left to help catch them, we never caught up with them last time they were saw they were going toward Laprades, I went back to the ridge about 10:00 and the gobbler was hammering again, went down, set up, and called up four long beards. lined up two heads and squeezed of one shot and got three birds.. you never know how things will work out, thats part of why I like to hunt..


----------



## jbogg

j_seph said:


> Even if it were backed up a few weeks bow hunters would still have to come in behind them to hunt and one of the big things I have been reading on here is that bow season will suck trying to hunt after the dogs have ran them. SO do not see where this would fix anything for most of the bowhunters I have seen complaining.



I’m not sure I understand what you mean. If the dog hunt was pushed back four weeks  it would occur at the end of bow season and I think everyone could live with that.


----------



## j_seph

jbogg said:


> I’m not sure I understand what you mean. If the dog hunt was pushed back four weeks  it would occur at the end of bow season and I think everyone could live with that.


I was thinking by back you meant earlier, my bad


----------



## Heath

Im truly sorry you have these feelings.  I have no problem hunting alone in NC or GA.  Don’t know why you are having such a hard time.  Probably aren’t trying to hunt alone!  I agree with you whole heartedly about fewer real dog men.  But there’s never been many anyways.  Always been scabs and tag alongs that are experts after 2 or 3 trips following someone else’s lifetime or longer of hard work.  

No sir, I’ve never seen a healthy deer run down and caught.  Don’t know many deer doggers that catch them as easly as you act like it is.  This is propaganda spread by someone who is either against hunting in general or just disgruntled at dog hunters.  You say you are a real Houndsmen then you say you like to hunt with a bunch of buddies.  Then you say you’ve seen healthy deer run down. Did you report it?  It would be easy to prove.  I don’t buy it.  

Believe me,  I’m more agitated at dog hunters than anyone.  I do believe a select few ruin it for the rest of us.  But why do we let a few idiots dictate what the good people are allowed to do.  It’s a slippery slope,  I’m not for the taking of any season.  My gripe is;  why are some so ready and willing to dispose of one form of hunting when I would gladly defend their right to hunt?  I think that’s why you feel alienated when you stand against dog hunters.  We wouldn’t vote to take away any hunting period!  But the other side dang sure has pushed to do away with us!

Now let’s share the Truth.  The state department had no hand in implementing the dog seasons we have now.  They didn’t just give it to us as a gift.  It was fought for and pushed by the dog hunters alliance and people who fought for a long time to have their voice finally heard.  The state seemed to be very much so against it but the biologists couldn’t refute the evidence.  Now we are here today!  

You keep playing the victim when your peers chastise you, or when you want to manipulate people’s sympathy for your cause.  Why is it that you want so badly to do away with one form of hunting?  Or at the least minimize our days in comparison to other forms.  Turkey season is shorter because the biologists don’t agree with other states on fall season impacts.  Has little to do with anything other than what’s best for the bird.  

I don’t have confrontations with anyone because there aren’t enough people hunting anymore to even worry about.  But to hear this forum everyone really works at it.  I hunted 5 or 6 days of every week this year and saw possibly 5 trucks parked and hunting.  That should scare the poo out of everyone!  We should worry more about getting kids involved than pushing other hunters out of the woods.


----------



## jbogg

RaCoHunter said:


> I was also at the meeting and heard them say they wanted the hunt to be as high quality as possible for the houndsmen. That time of year is prime for bear movement which equals a better experience for us, which is why they did it. The houndsmen didn’t choose the timing of the hunt, so that’s not on us. I wish it would have worked out better for everyone  as I wouldn’t mind the hunt being moved back. I’m sorry it’s not that way though. I truly hope we can see past any disagreement because at the end of the day we’re all bear hunters no matter the method and we may end up with arms locked together fighting for any type of bear season one day soon.
> 
> As far as keeping dogs within an area there’s no foolproof way to do it. They can’t read or know they’re not supposed to go somewhere. You can reduce the chances of them leaving however.
> 
> Only turning out on hot tracks.
> 
> Hunting the core of a property.
> 
> Having dogs that run to catch the bear or hog, not run just to chase it. There’s a big difference.
> 
> Having good technology such as an Alpha system where you can tone recall your dogs. This means your dogs know to come back to you when you tone their collar. This is a questionable practice however as you can mess up a good dog quickly by shocking or toning at the wrong time or too often.
> 
> I don’t think this will be quite as big an issue as you may think. The way I understand it Chattahoochee and Chestatee are combined for the hunt and that’s a huge area. I don’t think I would have a problem keeping my dogs in an area that size. I have been wrong before though and like I said there are no guarantees.



It’s going to be interesting to see how this pans out. I guess in a perfect world if there was a big chunk of national forest bordered by roads all the way around that would help the hound hunters to keep their dogs from straying.  As it stands, the entire northern boundary of both of these WMAs Is the Appalachian Trail. If you look at a map of Chattahoochee there’s a good 15 miles of trail between Hogpen gap and Unicoi gap with very little road access in that area.   Seems to me like the dogs are going to get well into the national forest off the WMA before there is any practical way to round them up.  So again this looks like a recipe for conflict not only with private property owners, but also with hunters that were forced off the WMA to  Hunt the surrounding national forest.


----------



## jbogg

Heath said:


> Im truly sorry you have these feelings.  I have no problem hunting alone in NC or GA.  Don’t know why you are having such a hard time.  Probably aren’t trying to hunt alone!  I agree with you whole heartedly about fewer real dog men.  But there’s never been many anyways.  Always been scabs and tag alongs that are experts after 2 or 3 trips following someone else’s lifetime or longer of hard work.
> 
> No sir, I’ve never seen a healthy deer run down and caught.  Don’t know many deer doggers that catch them as easly as you act like it is.  This is propaganda spread by someone who is either against hunting in general or just disgruntled at dog hunters.  You say you are a real Houndsmen then you say you like to hunt with a bunch of buddies.  Then you say you’ve seen healthy deer run down. Did you report it?  It would be easy to prove.  I don’t buy it.
> 
> Believe me,  I’m more agitated at dog hunters than anyone.  I do believe a select few ruin it for the rest of us.  But why do we let a few idiots dictate what the good people are allowed to do.  It’s a slippery slope,  I’m not for the taking of any season.  My gripe is;  why are some so ready and willing to dispose of one form of hunting when I would gladly defend their right to hunt?  I think that’s why you feel alienated when you stand against dog hunters.  We wouldn’t vote to take away any hunting period!  But the other side dang sure has pushed to do away with us!
> 
> Now let’s share the Truth.  The state department had no hand in implementing the dog seasons we have now.  They didn’t just give it to us as a gift.  It was fought for and pushed by the dog hunters alliance and people who fought for a long time to have their voice finally heard.  The state seemed to be very much so against it but the biologists couldn’t refute the evidence.  Now we are here today!
> 
> You keep playing the victim when your peers chastise you, or when you want to manipulate people’s sympathy for your cause.  Why is it that you want so badly to do away with one form of hunting?  Or at the least minimize our days in comparison to other forms.  Turkey season is shorter because the biologists don’t agree with other states on fall season impacts.  Has little to do with anything other than what’s best for the bird.
> 
> I don’t have confrontations with anyone because there aren’t enough people hunting anymore to even worry about.  But to hear this forum everyone really works at it.  I hunted 5 or 6 days of every week this year and saw possibly 5 trucks parked and hunting.  That should scare the poo out of everyone!  We should worry more about getting kids involved than pushing other hunters out of the woods.



What exactly do you mean when you say “the state was against it, but the biologists could not refute the evidence?”   This was a political decision from the top down to appease a very vocal group.   I spoke with several biologists who were not in favor of the hunt but it was pushed through anyway. This decision had nothing to do with trying to reduce bear numbers.  I’ve read the report, and it states that the dog hunt will have no significant impact on bear populations so one could conclude that reducing bear numbers is not one of the purposes of the hunt. Something doesn’t add up.


----------



## Heath

jbogg said:


> What exactly do you mean when you say “the state was against it, but the biologists could not refute the evidence?”   This was a political decision from the top down to appease a very vocal group.   I spoke with several biologists who were not in favor of the hunt but it was pushed through anyway. This decision had nothing to do with trying to reduce bear numbers.  I’ve read the report, and it states that the dog hunt will have no significant impact on bear populations so one could conclude that reducing bear numbers is not one of the purposes of the hunt. Something doesn’t add up.



Jbogg, it has everything to do with biology and reducing bear numbers.  But also with an even more productive method of removing bears than can be accomplished through traditional still hunting.  There is really no practical reason for not having dog hunting other than the simple fact that some don’t understand it and are against it for whatever reasons or conclusions they draw.  The state didn’t want to deal without the backlash from disgruntled hunters because this has been a battle for around 20 years in Georgia.  

I’m sure you’ve noticed that everything is worded cryptically so as to keep the masses at bay or to leave interpretation room because not everything is as cut and dry as we wish it were.  The sample size of the units being hunted is not large enough to declare any significant change in numbers when taken into the whole regions area.  (50,000 acres isn’t going to change all of North Georgia’s bear population).  It will however, give them a baseline research number as to just how effective it might be in that specific area.  

I know you are new to hunting in this area, I feel you might be new to hunting in general.  I’m grateful that you seem to want to understand and not take everything at face value.  We are at war in this country, with people who want to take away our liberties.  Losing any form of hunting is a loss on our behalf.  Many do not understand that and are willingly aiding the mass movement to eliminate us all.  Luckily, our state still has some sanity left and we have people who truly care about providing for our future.  If we can nurture sound hunting practices and keep numbers of all game in Check their will be no need for government interference.  You probably remember supply and demand charts and what happens when big brother intervenes.  Seems more people are worried about what they are gonna get out of it than what we all might gain in the future.

I’ll  say it again for others,  keep calm and let the bear hounds have a chance.  If successful, everyone will benefit.  If not, it will be done away with.  It’s not the end of the world unless you have a different agenda you are actually trying to push.  We all won,  the State granted us another form of hunting when other states are closing doors on it.


----------



## 35 Whelen

*Fair Chase and the Survival of Hunting *

Ethical choices in hunting are more important today than at any previous time. Hunter’s values—their motivations and their conduct—shape society’s opinion of hunting. A recent scientific survey conducted by Mark Damien Duda of Responsive Management indicates that American’s approval of hunting remains high. The study found that 77% of American adults strongly or moderately approve of hunting, however this support is conditional rather than absolute. Approval of hunting tends to vary considerably according to species, and method of hunting. Equally important to Americans’ overall approval of hunting is the motivation for hunting. American adults overwhelmingly approve of hunting for food (85% of all respondents expressed strong or moderate approval), to protect humans from harm (85%), for animal population control (83%), for wildlife management (81%) or to protect property (71%). However, approval diminishes considerably when respondents are asked about hunting for the sport (53% approve), to supplement income (44%), hunting on Sundays (41%), for the challenge (40%) or for a trophy (28%). While more than half of American adults strongly or moderately support hunting with dogs (57%), less than half support any of the other hunting methods asked about in the survey: hunting using special scents that attract game (36%), hunting over bait (27%), hunting using high tech gear (20%) or hunting in a high fence preserve (20%). This number climbs to 48% for hunters with limited mobility hunting within a high fence preserve.

*In any democracy, society decides what is acceptable or unacceptable, and therefore what stays and what goes. Hunting traditions are potentially at risk if the majority of citizens develop a negative perception of hunting, whether this perception is justified or not. Ethics may be a matter of choice, but the actions of individuals can come to represent the entire group and it is important that hunters understand this. *

*https://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/On_Fair_Chase.pdf *


----------



## Heath

35 Whelen said:


> *Fair Chase and the Survival of Hunting *
> 
> Ethical choices in hunting are more important today than at any previous time. Hunter’s values—their motivations and their conduct—shape society’s opinion of hunting. A recent scientific survey conducted by Mark Damien Duda of Responsive Management indicates that American’s approval of hunting remains high. The study found that 77% of American adults strongly or moderately approve of hunting, however this support is conditional rather than absolute. Approval of hunting tends to vary considerably according to species, and method of hunting. Equally important to Americans’ overall approval of hunting is the motivation for hunting. American adults overwhelmingly approve of hunting for food (85% of all respondents expressed strong or moderate approval), to protect humans from harm (85%), for animal population control (83%), for wildlife management (81%) or to protect property (71%). However, approval diminishes considerably when respondents are asked about hunting for the sport (53% approve), to supplement income (44%), hunting on Sundays (41%), for the challenge (40%) or for a trophy (28%). While more than half of American adults strongly or moderately support hunting with dogs (57%), less than half support any of the other hunting methods asked about in the survey: hunting using special scents that attract game (36%), hunting over bait (27%), hunting using high tech gear (20%) or hunting in a high fence preserve (20%). This number climbs to 48% for hunters with limited mobility hunting within a high fence preserve.
> 
> *In any democracy, society decides what is acceptable or unacceptable, and therefore what stays and what goes. Hunting traditions are potentially at risk if the majority of citizens develop a negative perception of hunting, whether this perception is justified or not. Ethics may be a matter of choice, but the actions of individuals can come to represent the entire group and it is important that hunters understand this. *



Sure wish I had researched and found this before I wasted so much brain power.


----------



## jbogg

Heath said:


> Jbogg, it has everything to do with biology and reducing bear numbers.  But also with an even more productive method of removing bears than can be accomplished through traditional still hunting.  There is really no practical reason for not having dog hunting other than the simple fact that some don’t understand it and are against it for whatever reasons or conclusions they draw.  The state didn’t want to deal without the backlash from disgruntled hunters because this has been a battle for around 20 years in Georgia.
> 
> I’m sure you’ve noticed that everything is worded cryptically so as to keep the masses at bay or to leave interpretation room because not everything is as cut and dry as we wish it were.  The sample size of the units being hunted is not large enough to declare any significant change in numbers when taken into the whole regions area.  (50,000 acres isn’t going to change all of North Georgia’s bear population).  It will however, give them a baseline research number as to just how effective it might be in that specific area.
> 
> I know you are new to hunting in this area, I feel you might be new to hunting in general.  I’m grateful that you seem to want to understand and not take everything at face value.  We are at war in this country, with people who want to take away our liberties.  Losing any form of hunting is a loss on our behalf.  Many do not understand that and are willingly aiding the mass movement to eliminate us all.  Luckily, our state still has some sanity left and we have people who truly care about providing for our future.  If we can nurture sound hunting practices and keep numbers of all game in Check their will be no need for government interference.  You probably remember supply and demand charts and what happens when big brother intervenes.  Seems more people are worried about what they are gonna get out of it than what we all might gain in the future.
> 
> I’ll  say it again for others,  keep calm and let the bear hounds have a chance.  If successful, everyone will benefit.  If not, it will be done away with.  It’s not the end of the world unless you have a different agenda you are actually trying to push.  We all won,  the State granted us another form of hunting when other states are closing doors on it.



You are correct in that I am fairly new to hunting the mountains, but I’m trying to make up for lost time. I am not a new hunter however, as this will be my 30th year bow hunting. I know this was a big win for Hound Hunters, But I can’t see it as anything but a loss for bowhunters. Bow season on those WMAs has essentially been reduced to one week.  Not much left to say about it.  I will move over to NF after the early rifle hunt, but my worry is that after the two year trial the dog hunt will be expanded to include the entire NF which is why I am being so vocal now.


----------



## jbogg

35 Whelen said:


> *Fair Chase and the Survival of Hunting *
> 
> Ethical choices in hunting are more important today than at any previous time. Hunter’s values—their motivations and their conduct—shape society’s opinion of hunting. A recent scientific survey conducted by Mark Damien Duda of Responsive Management indicates that American’s approval of hunting remains high. The study found that 77% of American adults strongly or moderately approve of hunting, however this support is conditional rather than absolute. Approval of hunting tends to vary considerably according to species, and method of hunting. Equally important to Americans’ overall approval of hunting is the motivation for hunting. American adults overwhelmingly approve of hunting for food (85% of all respondents expressed strong or moderate approval), to protect humans from harm (85%), for animal population control (83%), for wildlife management (81%) or to protect property (71%). However, approval diminishes considerably when respondents are asked about hunting for the sport (53% approve), to supplement income (44%), hunting on Sundays (41%), for the challenge (40%) or for a trophy (28%). While more than half of American adults strongly or moderately support hunting with dogs (57%), less than half support any of the other hunting methods asked about in the survey: hunting using special scents that attract game (36%), hunting over bait (27%), hunting using high tech gear (20%) or hunting in a high fence preserve (20%). This number climbs to 48% for hunters with limited mobility hunting within a high fence preserve.
> 
> *In any democracy, society decides what is acceptable or unacceptable, and therefore what stays and what goes. Hunting traditions are potentially at risk if the majority of citizens develop a negative perception of hunting, whether this perception is justified or not. Ethics may be a matter of choice, but the actions of individuals can come to represent the entire group and it is important that hunters understand this. *



Interesting stats.  Not to split hairs but I'm guessing the majority of people in that study envision a lab shivering in a duck blind when they think of hunting with dogs.  Show them a video of a catch dog grabbing a hog and your results probably change significantly.  I do agree that hunters need to speak loudly and with one voice.  Squeaky wheel gets the grease as evidenced by the Dog hunt.  If hunter numbers keep declining at the current rate the antis will have the megaphone and politicians will do what politicians do.  Over the years I have introduced a fair number of people to hunting, and have always tried to use some trailhead diplomacy when encountering curious hikers in the parking lot or on the trail.  If I was a dog hunter I would invite some bow hunting non dog hunters along for the race and build some bridges where you can.   It’s probably pretty obvious I don’t have much going on at work today. No promises, but I will try to make this my last post of the day.


----------



## 35 Whelen

jbogg said:


> Interesting stats.  Not to split hairs but I'm guessing the majority of people in that study envision a lab shivering in a duck blind when they think of hunting with dogs.  Show them a video of a catch dog grabbing a hog and your results probably change significantly.  I do agree that hunters need to speak loudly and with one voice.  Squeaky wheel gets the grease as evidenced by the Dog hunt.  If hunter numbers keep declining at the current rate the antis will have the megaphone and politicians will do what politicians do.  Over the years I have introduced a fair number of people to hunting, and have always tried to use some trailhead diplomacy when encountering curious hikers in the parking lot or on the trail.  If I was a dog hunter I would invite some bow hunting non dog hunters along for the race and build some bridges where you can.   It’s probably pretty obvious I don’t have much going on at work today. No promises, but I will try to make this my last post of the day.



Lab in a duck blind or bird dog pointing a covey of quail or pheasant, either way 57% is a slim margin of majority support.  I believe this is the most important statement to govern our actions as hunters:

*In any democracy, society decides what is acceptable or unacceptable, and therefore what stays and what goes. Hunting traditions are potentially at risk if the majority of citizens develop a negative perception of hunting, whether this perception is justified or not. Ethics may be a matter of choice, but the actions of individuals can come to represent the entire group and it is important that hunters understand this. *


----------



## NCridgerunner

I know I’m a little late to this party but I’m proud of the direction Georgia has stepped. As a dog hunter I can say this. As an all around hunter I can understand why people are upset. 

The season dates aren’t perfect and the state seems to be flying by the seat of their pants (hunt is supposed to be in September but the quota isn’t even open yet). In my opinion the absolute ideal season dates would be directly after turkey season closes. Bears are moving and searching for food the most at this point. No one would loose any bow hunting time in September and I believe everyone would get along better and the dog guys would have more support from people that just don’t understand. 

I will be applying for the quota along with several hunting buddies. If not selected I would love to come be a dog man for a party. I’ll be returning home from Canada with my hounds about a week before this hunt and will have everything in top notch shape before a 9 day hunt. I will already have several kills for the year to my hounds before the hunt also.

To the people who don’t really understand how hunting with dogs works I would be a huge asset. My hounds see anywhere from 75-100 bears a year and are seasoned vets. You don’t just walk through the woods with a dog and kill bears. It’s the most physically challenging type of hunting east of the Mississippi and not uncommon to walk 10+ miles per day. 

I simply want to put my name out there with my hunting partner as an option to 100% guarantee you a bear. We would never be interested in shooting unless we got on a big bear on the ground that didnt want to climb and was hurting dogs. It’s all about dog work with us. 

We hunt north Georgia often with hounds during the training season and normally tree at least 2 bears a morning and it’s not uncommon to have split races and end up on 3 or 4 bears. We have 10 dogs between the 2 of us and rotate them in a very thought out way so we can hunt every day. (For the people who don’t understand this.) dogs aren’t machines and they get tired. Unless you have short races they can’t run to a superior caliber every day no matter what their conditioning is. We normally run no more than 4-5 dogs at a time on a bear to maximize our days. This may sound crazy to some but we hunt 150 days a year and do our best to keep each dog in great health. They are part of the family and part of our team.

At the end of the day all I’m trying to get out there is that if you get drawn and want to be guaranteed bears give me a call. I have thousands of hours of videos and pictures (not sure if those can be put on here or not, I’m new to the forum). I spend countless days training hounds in multiple states and all the way to Canada and back. I would love nothing more than for someone to bring a few kids to get their first bears because that’s where the future of our sport lies. God bless and happy hunting.


----------



## strothershwacker

I'll be somewhere bowhunting. Who knows may even get to "high five myself"???.


----------



## jbogg

NCridgerunner said:


> I know I’m a little late to this party but I’m proud of the direction Georgia has stepped. As a dog hunter I can say this. As an all around hunter I can understand why people are upset.
> 
> The season dates aren’t perfect and the state seems to be flying by the seat of their pants (hunt is supposed to be in September but the quota isn’t even open yet). In my opinion the absolute ideal season dates would be directly after turkey season closes. Bears are moving and searching for food the most at this point. No one would loose any bow hunting time in September and I believe everyone would get along better and the dog guys would have more support from people that just don’t understand.
> 
> I will be applying for the quota along with several hunting buddies. If not selected I would love to come be a dog man for a party. I’ll be returning home from Canada with my hounds about a week before this hunt and will have everything in top notch shape before a 9 day hunt. I will already have several kills for the year to my hounds before the hunt also.
> 
> To the people who don’t really understand how hunting with dogs works I would be a huge asset. My hounds see anywhere from 75-100 bears a year and are seasoned vets. You don’t just walk through the woods with a dog and kill bears. It’s the most physically challenging type of hunting east of the Mississippi and not uncommon to walk 10+ miles per day.
> 
> I simply want to put my name out there with my hunting partner as an option to 100% guarantee you a bear. We would never be interested in shooting unless we got on a big bear on the ground that didnt want to climb and was hurting dogs. It’s all about dog work with us.
> 
> We hunt north Georgia often with hounds during the training season and normally tree at least 2 bears a morning and it’s not uncommon to have split races and end up on 3 or 4 bears. We have 10 dogs between the 2 of us and rotate them in a very thought out way so we can hunt every day. (For the people who don’t understand this.) dogs aren’t machines and they get tired. Unless you have short races they can’t run to a superior caliber every day no matter what their conditioning is. We normally run no more than 4-5 dogs at a time on a bear to maximize our days. This may sound crazy to some but we hunt 150 days a year and do our best to keep each dog in great health. They are part of the family and part of our team.
> 
> At the end of the day all I’m trying to get out there is that if you get drawn and want to be guaranteed bears give me a call. I have thousands of hours of videos and pictures (not sure if those can be put on here or not, I’m new to the forum). I spend countless days training hounds in multiple states and all the way to Canada and back. I would love nothing more than for someone to bring a few kids to get their first bears because that’s where the future of our sport lies. God bless and happy hunting.



I was always told that the reason they won’t do a spring hunt is because there is to much risk of separating a Sow from some very young cubs.  Not sure if that is the reason, but it makes sense if true.


----------



## gobbleinwoods

Has anyone's position changed in 169 posts?


----------



## strothershwacker

gobbleinwoods said:


> Has anyone's position changed in 169 posts?


Mine has. I was gonna hunt with a compound but now i'm leaning toward my recurve.?


----------



## greg_n_clayton

You could kill every bear on the WMAs they propose the quota hunts on and it wouldn't have any effect on the over all population up here. And the USFS will never allow such like they do in NC and SC, no time soon anyways !


----------



## j_seph

jbogg said:


> You are correct in that I am fairly new to hunting the mountains, but I’m trying to make up for lost time. I am not a new hunter however, as this will be my 30th year bow hunting. I know this was a big win for Hound Hunters, *But I can’t see it as anything but a loss for bowhunters*. Bow season on those WMAs has essentially been reduced to one week.  Not much left to say about it.  I will move over to NF after the early rifle hunt, but my worry is that after the two year trial the dog hunt will be expanded to include the entire NF which is why I am being so vocal now.


20 years the hound hunters have lost. Time to let the 2nd string players come out and run some plays for the home team.


----------



## j_seph

NCridgerunner said:


> I know I’m a little late to this party but I’m proud of the direction Georgia has stepped. As a dog hunter I can say this. As an all around hunter I can understand why people are upset.
> 
> The season dates aren’t perfect and the state seems to be flying by the seat of their pants (hunt is supposed to be in September but the quota isn’t even open yet). In my opinion the absolute ideal season dates would be directly after turkey season closes. Bears are moving and searching for food the most at this point. No one would loose any bow hunting time in September and I believe everyone would get along better and the dog guys would have more support from people that just don’t understand.
> 
> I will be applying for the quota along with several hunting buddies. If not selected I would love to come be a dog man for a party. I’ll be returning home from Canada with my hounds about a week before this hunt and will have everything in top notch shape before a 9 day hunt. I will already have several kills for the year to my hounds before the hunt also.
> 
> To the people who don’t really understand how hunting with dogs works I would be a huge asset. My hounds see anywhere from 75-100 bears a year and are seasoned vets. You don’t just walk through the woods with a dog and kill bears. It’s the most physically challenging type of hunting east of the Mississippi and not uncommon to walk 10+ miles per day.
> 
> I simply want to put my name out there with my hunting partner as an option to 100% guarantee you a bear. We would never be interested in shooting unless we got on a big bear on the ground that didnt want to climb and was hurting dogs. It’s all about dog work with us.
> 
> We hunt north Georgia often with hounds during the training season and normally tree at least 2 bears a morning and it’s not uncommon to have split races and end up on 3 or 4 bears. We have 10 dogs between the 2 of us and rotate them in a very thought out way so we can hunt every day. (For the people who don’t understand this.) dogs aren’t machines and they get tired. Unless you have short races they can’t run to a superior caliber every day no matter what their conditioning is. We normally run no more than 4-5 dogs at a time on a bear to maximize our days. This may sound crazy to some but we hunt 150 days a year and do our best to keep each dog in great health. They are part of the family and part of our team.
> 
> At the end of the day all I’m trying to get out there is that if you get drawn and want to be guaranteed bears give me a call. I have thousands of hours of videos and pictures (not sure if those can be put on here or not, I’m new to the forum). I spend countless days training hounds in multiple states and all the way to Canada and back. I would love nothing more than for someone to bring a few kids to get their first bears because that’s where the future of our sport lies. God bless and happy hunting.


I still feel this will be setup to be drawn you will have to have some sort of something pointing that you are a hound hunter like yourself.


----------



## jbogg

greg_n_clayton said:


> You could kill every bear on the WMAs they propose the quota hunts on and it wouldn't have any effect on the over all population up here. And the USFS will never allow such like they do in NC and SC, no time soon anyways !



What makes you think the USFS won’t allow it like North Carolina?  I thought these next two years are a trial, and then the DNR would consider expanding the hunt.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

jbogg said:


> What makes you think the USFS won’t allow it like North Carolina?  I thought these next two years are a trial, and then the DNR would consider expanding the hunt.


Just thimk they will. DNR in SC treats gov't over there as game management. They pay a fee to do any kinda hunting, like our WMAs, on those lands across the board. Don't know how they do it in NC.


----------



## strothershwacker

When bear dogging is outlawed, only bears will have dogs.


----------



## NCridgerunner

jbogg said:


> I was always told that the reason they won’t do a spring hunt is because there is to much risk of separating a Sow from some very young cubs.  Not sure if that is the reason, but it makes sense if true.



It’s really no different than the training season that has occurred the same dates after turkey season for the last ten years. Sometimes you get after a sow and cubs but she will normally put them up a tree and stay close by fighting or tree somewhere else close by. They get right back together as soon as the race is over. I would never knowingly turn on a sow with cubs but the cubs leave very little to no sign in the woods so mistakes happen from time to time. No harm is done at the end of the day though.


----------



## NCridgerunner

j_seph said:


> I still feel this will be setup to be drawn you will have to have some sort of something pointing that you are a hound hunter like yourself.



In a way I hope this is true but I also want some guys that are completely against it to get to hunt. I’ll make my vow right here that if I get drawn I want to bring a couple guys and their bows that are set in their ways and let them shoot a bear over hounds with their bows. 

I wish I knew when they were going to have meetings. I really wish they would view a spring hunt as an option so no hunting seasons are lost. I’m tickled to get to hunt as a dog hunter but I can honestly say I hate it for the die hard bow hunters that hunt these WMAS.


----------



## 35 Whelen

NCridgerunner said:


> In a way I hope this is true but I also want some guys that are completely against it to get to hunt. I’ll make my vow right here that if I get drawn I want to bring a couple guys and their bows that are set in their ways and let them shoot a bear over hounds with their bows.
> 
> I wish I knew when they were going to have meetings. I really wish they would view a spring hunt as an option so no hunting seasons are lost. I’m tickled to get to hunt as a dog hunter but I can honestly say I hate it for the die hard bow hunters that hunt these WMAS.



Here is the Hunting Regulations Process and scheduled meetings:

https://georgiawildlife.com/hunting/regulationsprocess


----------



## NCridgerunner

35 Whelen said:


> Here is the Hunting Regulations Process and scheduled meetings:
> 
> https://georgiawildlife.com/hunting/regulationsprocess


Thank you sir


----------



## DAVE

Most post on deer hunting North Ga. usually have complaints about the deer population and how the bears negatively affect those deer numbers. Now after years of complaining about low deer numbers, the same complainers are complaining about the DNR trying to help the deer hunters by eliminating bears in a more effective way. After 30+ years of a bear season in Ga., if the old methods worked you wouldn't be needing dogs now.


----------



## tree cutter 08

It


DAVE said:


> Most post on deer hunting North Ga. usually have complaints about the deer population and how the bears negatively affect those deer numbers. Now after years of complaining about low deer numbers, the same complainers are complaining about the DNR trying to help the deer hunters by eliminating bears in a more effective way. After 30+ years of a bear season in Ga., if the old methods worked you wouldn't be needing dogs now.


 It ain't because they are wanting to help improve deer numbers! From what I read last year they plan to maintain population where it is now. That was in the bear plan.


----------



## strothershwacker

I think we orta just all meet up at the waffle house and settle this in the parkin lot!


----------



## Buckman18

strothershwacker said:


> I think we orta just all meet up at the waffle house and settle this in the parkin lot!



Somebody’s gonna get scattered, covered, and smothered...


----------



## goshenmountainman

jbogg said:


> I appreciate your perspective since you have been on both sides of the fence.  I hunt with both bow and gun, and there are a lot of guys that like to hunt bear early with a bow when they are still climbing the white oaks.  The early rifle hunt starting just a week after the bow opener and then followed immediately by a ton of dog hunters for nine days makes the prospect of taking a bear with archery equipment an even tougher proposition unless a man is able to get it done in the first week.  Chattahoochee and Chestatee will get real small real fast with that many dogs running.  I understand that it won’t affect deer movement a few weeks later, but I would be surprised if there is a bear left on those two WMAs for the final two weeks of bow season which reopens the day after the dogs finish running.  The bears will resume their normal patterns within their normal range eventually, but it sure won’t happen overnight.  With that said I don’t blame the dog hunters and I wish them success.  Just wish the DNR had given a little more thought to the timing.


If you do your leg work, find a bunch of acorns falling and bear scat, don't hunt opening morning, because most of the time they are there when you arrive and spook them.. come in very quite about 2:00 in the evening, set up on the sign and kill him the first evening.. everybody that truly hunts these mountains know that the evening is the best time to kill one of these furry critters, see almost all the bear I see every year in the last three hours of daylight. I killed a bunch of them and only two were taken in the morning, and they all were killed while I was deer hunting not bear hunting. We gonna have a bear dog hunt!! Period, done deal!! No since in keeping on  harping about it. They deserve a season just as well as you and I.. if you need another place to hunt those nine days while they have that bear hunt, pm me and I can point you in the right direction. I am just glad we getting a little help to maybe take a few more bear that we hunters are not getting with bow and guns. Every little bit helps us that live here and have to deal with these things year round!


----------



## jbogg

goshenmountainman said:


> If you do your leg work, find a bunch of acorns falling and bear scat, don't hunt opening morning, because most of the time they are there when you arrive and spook them.. come in very quite about 2:00 in the evening, set up on the sign and kill him the first evening.. everybody that truly hunts these mountains know that the evening is the best time to kill one of these furry critters, see almost all the bear I see every year in the last three hours of daylight. I killed a bunch of them and only two were taken in the morning, and they all were killed while I was deer hunting not bear hunting. We gonna have a bear dog hunt!! Period, done deal!! No since in keeping on  harping about it. They deserve a season just as well as you and I.. if you need another place to hunt those nine days while they have that bear hunt, pm me and I can point you in the right direction. I am just glad we getting a little help to maybe take a few more bear that we hunters are getting with bow and guns. Every little bit helps us that live here and have to deal with these things year round!



Thanks for the offer, but I do have plenty of spots on NF to hunt bear.  I was mainly raising a stink because I do not want to see this hunt expanded to include all of Chattahoochee NF as well during the same time period.  Push the hunt back a month or two and they can run the entire NF as far as I’m concerned, just don’t have it two weeks into bow season.


----------



## strothershwacker

Buckman18 said:


> Somebody’s gonna get scattered, covered, and smothered...


Hehehehe.... thats how an Awful House brawl goes right there!


----------



## Bowhunter77

I’m bringing down my whole Korean side of the family, “no bear, then we eat dog soup! Yummy” or that’s what I thought I heard them say...


----------



## goshenmountainman

If we have to give two weeks of any season for a bear hunt lets give them the first two weeks of rifle season in the mountains, It sucks anyway, to hot, and still a month or more away from the rut in the mountains! I don't start hunting till mid November with a rifle anyway.


----------



## humdandy

Any news?


----------



## jbogg

I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## brownitisdown

????????????


----------



## treadwell

Do what the rest of America does if you don't like the regs, file a law suit and shut it down! (Just kidding).


----------



## twincedargap

speaking of lawsuits, I'm amazed that some wacko commy liberal dog loving anti-hunting group hasn't jumped all over this. 

ditto the new union county gun club on NF only 3.8 miles from the exiting Chatuge gun club


----------



## humdandy

Aug 1 thru Aug 15 you can apply.  Good luck boys!


----------



## 35 Whelen

GENERAL QUOTA HUNT APPLICATIONS - Dog-Bear
APPLICATION DEADLINE - Aug. 15
Applications with an administrator and assistant administrator only. Selected administrator may bring a hunting party totaling no more than ten members including administrators.

2019-2020 DOG-BEAR QUOTA HUNTS
APPLICATION PERIOD: AUG. 1 - AUG. 15
LOCATION WEAPON TYPE QUOTA DATES
Chattahoochee WMA Firearms Dog Hunting/ Either Sex Q9 Sept. 28 - Oct. 6 c
Chestatee WMA Firearms Dog Hunting/ Either Sex Q6 Sept. 28 - Oct. 6 c

Dog-bear hunters must check in at the Chestatee WMA check station prior to hunting and are required to attend a pre-hunt meeting as directed in their draw notification email. All dogs used in the dog-bear hunt must be marked with the selected hunter’s name and phone number.


----------



## twincedargap

One more day!  Training has started.   Recruiting family members to apply also.


----------



## Buckman18

twincedargap said:


> One more day!  Training has started.   Recruiting family members to apply also.
> View attachment 977971



I’ve heard about this dog! It’s a known attack dog that attacks ugly people and bears!


----------



## humdandy

Just applied!  Wooohooo....should be fun!


----------



## Christian hughey

twincedargap said:


> One more day!  Training has started.   Recruiting family members to apply also.
> View attachment 977971


Me and my partner are all signed up and ready for the trail. Hope there aren't a lot of bunnies in the hills! ?


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> Me and my partner are all signed up and ready for the trail. Hope there aren't a lot of bunnies in the hills! ?[/QUOTE
> 
> LOL......it is against the rules to feed the bears !


----------



## Buckman18

Christian hughey said:


> Me and my partner are all signed up and ready for the trail. Hope there aren't a lot of bunnies in the hills! ?View attachment 978124



That’s funny!

On serious note, this hunt has been put together so poorly, with such terrible timing, that I imagine a lot of bow hunters who don’t really have bear dogs will be applying. 

Sad. Move it back a couple weeks and it could be a glorious thing, and all hunter segments would be happy.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Buckman18 said:


> That’s funny!
> 
> On serious note, this hunt has been put together so poorly, with such terrible timing, that I imagine a lot of bow hunters who don’t really have bear dogs will be applying.
> 
> Sad. Move it back a couple weeks and it could be a glorious thing, and all hunter segments would be happy.


On another serious note....it is people that think like you do is the reason they waited and only put it out for 15 days !! And I know that to be a fact  !


----------



## strothershwacker

Ya'll are just ribbing these guys I hope.


----------



## Buckman18

greg_n_clayton said:


> On another serious note....it is people that think like you do is the reason they waited and only put it out for 15 days !! And I know that to be a fact  !



No, they’re doing it the way they are because they don’t have the fuzz on their peaches to admit they’re shafting the archery hunters to cater to a mostly Non Resident hunter segment.

I don’t have hounds anymore but my family in NC does. If I get drawn, it’s a win win for me. It’s been a couple years since I’ve been on a good rally. But the timing is terrible if you’re an archery hunter on one of these WMA’s. All the state had to do was change the timing and everyone would’ve been happy.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Go ahead and take ol fluffey out there.  If he runs into a pack of "Pocahontas  Plotts".....you might rethink the situation. They don't play well with others. Lol !


----------



## jbogg

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Go ahead and take ol fluffey out there.  If he runs into a pack of "Pocahontas  Plotts".....you might rethink the situation. They don't play well with others. Lol !



There will be a ton of day hikers on the AT that time of year with fluffy by their side.  Hope your kidding about Plotts and other dogs or this hunt won’t have much longevity.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

I'm just saying bear dogs are ruff. They have a lot of grit. They have to so they can handle the hunt. Their not likely gonna put up with somebody's little ankle biter running up there yapping at them. They don't take a lot of junk from another dog.


----------



## Heath

Hillbilly stalker said:


> I'm just saying bear dogs are ruff. They have a lot of grit. They have to so they can handle the hunt. Their not likely gonna put up with somebody's little ankle biter running up there yapping at them. They don't take a lot of junk from another dog.



There are obviously some serious misunderstandings and flat out untruths among the general public about bear hunting with dogs.

Obviously, most of you have never been around a Pocahontas Plott or any bear dogs.  Gene Walker don’t put up with ill dogs,  I’ve been in his living room 3 times with him and his wonderful wife Anne visiting and talking dogs.   Not sure where you boys get your information but please stop fantasizing and maybe experience something before you condemn it.





Menacing, aren’t they?


----------



## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> No, they’re doing it the way they are because they don’t have the fuzz on their peaches to admit they’re shafting the archery hunters to cater to a mostly Non Resident hunter segment.
> 
> I don’t have hounds anymore but my family in NC does. If I get drawn, it’s a win win for me. It’s been a couple years since I’ve been on a good rally. But the timing is terrible if you’re an archery hunter on one of these WMA’s. All the state had to do was change the timing and everyone would’ve been happy.



What’s stopping “them” from hunting the other hundreds of thousands of acres that doesn’t lie within those 2 wma boundaries?  My guess is there is no time a deer hunter thinks anyone else should be allowed to share “our” natural resources.


----------



## Buckman18

Heath said:


> What’s stopping “them” from hunting the other hundreds of thousands of acres that doesn’t lie within those 2 wma boundaries?  My guess is there is no time a deer hunter thinks anyone else should be allowed to share “our” natural resources.



What’s stopping “them” from timing the dog hunt to not fall in the middle of bow season dates that have been in effect for decades on a popular archery season WMA with a loyal following of archery hunters?


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Heath said:


> There are obviously some serious misunderstandings and flat out untruths among the general public about bear hunting with dogs.
> 
> Obviously, most of you have never been around a Pocahontas Plott or any bear dogs.  Gene Walker don’t put up with ill dogs,  I’ve been in his living room 3 times with him and his wonderful wife Anne visiting and talking dogs.   Not sure where you boys get your information but please stop fantasizing and maybe experience something before you condemn it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Menacing, aren’t they?


Never said a thing about them being ill, having grit is a whole different ball game. I'm sure I knew the dogs we hunted better than someone else who didn't. . My info comes from 1st hand experience in Logan, Boone and a handful of other counties....and I am a Walker. No fantasy's here brother.


----------



## Heath

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Never said a thing about them being ill, having grit is a whole different ball game. I'm sure I knew the dogs we hunted better than someone else who didn't. . My info comes from 1st hand experience in Logan, Boone and a handful of other counties....and I am a Walker. No fantasy's here brother.



You are correct,  ill and grit are 2 completely different things.  If dogs jump on somebodies Fluffy they are dog mean.  I wasn’t impressed much with my Pocahontas dogs grit and they weren’t dog mean either.  People have this weird belief that bear dogs are mean or ruff or that they have to be if they are a bear dog.  Not been my experience.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Heath said:


> You are correct,  ill and grit are 2 completely different things.  If dogs jump on somebodies Fluffy they are dog mean.  I wasn’t impressed much with my Pocahontas dogs grit and they weren’t dog mean either.  People have this weird belief that bear dogs are mean or ruff or that they have to be if they are a bear dog.  Not been my experience.


A dog that is ill toward another dog don't stay in the yard long around here !


----------



## Heath

greg_n_clayton said:


> A dog that is ill toward another dog don't stay in the yard long around here !



That’s the way it is here as well.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Y'all ain't never had a yard dog come to your tree and start some junk ?


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Joe Brandon said:


> The three of yall above seem to be real experts in the subject matter. When does the darn book come out? Yall got a better chance of hitting the broad side of a burnt barn than getting picked for the draw, and that ain't a good shot.


You an expert ? Why be sassy ? I ain't put in for the hunt but wish others well. We're just jawing.


----------



## Buckman18

Hillbilly stalker said:


> You an expert ? Why be sassy ? I ain't put in for the hunt but wish others well. We're just jawing.



You must’ve read Joe’s post different than I did, I didn’t think he was being sassy? You non-resident posters are a rather sensitive bunch.


----------



## Buckman18

greg_n_clayton said:


> Two up today !!


Did you fire on them?


----------



## Joe Brandon

Hey just cutn' please take no offense all in good fun!!!!


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Buckman18 said:


> Did you fire on them?


NO !!


----------



## Buckman18

greg_n_clayton said:


> NO !!



Haha!


----------



## greg_n_clayton

I whave cancelled my application , so that should make you dog haters happy !


----------



## JN86

One thing I noticed on the bear harvest data is that most of the bear are killed outside of the WMA's and private land and there is a bear dog training season from August-1 up to archery season.


----------



## jbogg

greg_n_clayton said:


> Two up today !!



How many dogs were you training?


----------



## greg_n_clayton

jbogg said:


> How many dogs were you training?


4 pups


----------



## greg_n_clayton

JN86 said:


> One thing I noticed on the bear harvest data is that most of the bear are killed outside of the WMA's and private land and there is a bear dog training season from August-1 up to archery season.


Oook ! Not in Rabun County !


----------



## brownitisdown

Most bears shot on wma have bird shot in there butt don't believe me ask anybody that has worked one up or had one worked up


----------



## jbogg

greg_n_clayton said:


> 4 pups



Since the dog hunt is etched in stone I am curious as to how many bear you experienced dog guys expect to be taken on each of the two WMAs.  I seems like if four pups tree two in one day then nine packs of experienced dogs should be able to Tree a bunch of bears over nine days.  I’m guessing a lot of the smaller bears will get a pass, but what would you guess the final harvest will be.  Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to determine if I should spend the time finding new hunting grounds.  Also, I am not a deer hunter that hates dogs.  I am a bear hunter who’s only issue was the timing of the hunt.  Now that it’s a done deal I will try to make the best of it.


----------



## brownitisdown

Depends on who gets drawer I know alot bowhunter that put in and hoping it turns out to be a bust


----------



## greg_n_clayton

brownitisdown said:


> Most bears shot on wma have bird shot in there butt don't believe me ask anybody that has worked one up or had one worked up


Proably running them off from a bird feeder or a trash can !! Do you have any idea how far they travel sir ?? Pffffft. They travel miles !!


----------



## brownitisdown

Yes I do and know what some bear Hunter will do when they are so call training dogs


----------



## greg_n_clayton

jbogg said:


> Since the dog hunt is etched in stone I am curious as to how many bear you experienced dog guys expect to be taken on each of the two WMAs.  I seems like if four pups tree two in one day then nine packs of experienced dogs should be able to Tree a bunch of bears over nine days.  I’m guessing a lot of the smaller bears will get a pass, but what would you guess the final harvest will be.  Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to determine if I should spend the time finding new hunting grounds.  Also, I am not a deer hunter that hates dogs.  I am a bear hunter who’s only issue was the timing of the hunt.  Now that it’s a done deal I will try to make the best of it.


I have not seen the book ! But i bet there is a limit per party ! If it it is 2, and i get drawn,  the small ones will get a pass and my party will be gone on day one if not...day 2. !!


----------



## brownitisdown

I grow up the old way you took a hide and trained your dogs were it coon or squirrel or bear


----------



## jbogg

greg_n_clayton said:


> I have not seen the book ! But i bet there is a limit per party ! If it it is 2, and i get drawn,  the small ones will get a pass and my party will be gone on day one if not...day 2. !!



There is no limit on the number of bears taken by each party over the nine days.


----------



## Buckman18

I’ve been working my mongrels this week. I’d like y’all to meet my trailing team: Snuffy and Fluffy

My pup in training: Wuffy

And my catch dog: Snuggles


It’s gonna be a rough week to be a bear.


----------



## brownitisdown

Dnr want the bears reduce in anyway they can so don't have to deal with them when they are not in season are that the true of it if they Care about them they wood stop alot of the so call dogs training


----------



## greg_n_clayton

I need to clear up something ! The pictures I shared with you folks are pictures that a local guy up here posted ! They wasn't above my dogs !


----------



## brownitisdown

That your choose on what you post and what you do as long as it is legal with ga laws


----------



## Heath

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Y'all ain't never had a yard dog come to your tree and start some junk ?



No sir, sure haven’t.  Not saying it won’t, just not likely where I tend to hunt.  

Isn’t it funny how everyone knows someone who is doing all this poaching and shooting bears out of season and how dog hunters are terrible for bears and all wildlife?  The Feds spent 5 million dollars undercover for years and only found 5 bears killed illegally and 2 or 3 of them were killed by their own agents!  I’ve heard this bull my entire life and never seen one poached or even shot at out of season.   But, I know quite a few deer hunters that claim they gut shoot every bear they see for population control.  I don’t believe much of that either.  You boys got to stop believing everything you hear or watch on television.  If them boys are killing out of season they ain’t doing a very good job of it cause the bear are as thick as they’ve ever been!  

Jbogg,  lots of things factor into success of this hunt just like any other hunt.  If good hunters with good dogs are drawn the results can be good.  If every Tom, Dick, and Harry that claims to have applied gets drawn it won’t be successful at all.  Hunting with dogs is no gimme like many believe,  very few dogs and men are good at it just like any other hunting.  Some are very successful but many more couldn’t catch a bear if they don’t team up and hunt in big groups. We shall see!


----------



## Heath

brownitisdown said:


> Dnr want the bears reduce in anyway they can so don't have to deal with them when they are not in season are that the true of it if they Care about them they wood stop alot of the so call dogs training



Hahahaha,  this is rich.  Fire a gun where some dogs have been treed for any amount of time and see how far you make it before the rabbit cops pay you a visit!  This isn’t exactly a quiet sport where you can sneak around and do all that garbage.  Bad people break the law, Period.  Makes no difference if they are dog hunting, deer hunting, duck hunting, or driving down the road.  Sounds like you need to find better peers, all yours seem to be outlaws.  If they are poaching bear they are poaching your deer and turkeys too!  Or is this more of that my brother’s cousin’s nephew’s friend told me they jump out bears with bird shot information.  I’ll tell you a secret,  hunters are like fishermen.  They stretch the truth a tad.  They haven’t done that many times or they’d be wearing some shiny new bracelets in the back of a state vehicle.  I hear those same stories and always have.  Mostly tall tales.  Or do you have first hand knowledge you’d like to share where you witnessed it with your own two eyes?  Can’t be both, either you saw it done and are part of the problem or you are telling stories that were told to you.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> I’ve been working my mongrels this week. I’d like y’all to meet my trailing team: Snuffy and Fluffy
> View attachment 978421
> My pup in training: Wuffy
> View attachment 978422
> And my catch dog: Snuggles
> View attachment 978423
> 
> It’s gonna be a rough week to be a bear.



You know the top retrieving dog in the world a few years ago was a poodle right? Smoked butt loads of labs and other "manly" dogs in hunt test and field trials.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Heath said:


> There are obviously some serious misunderstandings and flat out untruths among the general public about bear hunting with dogs.
> 
> Obviously, most of you have never been around a Pocahontas Plott or any bear dogs.  Gene Walker don’t put up with ill dogs,  I’ve been in his living room 3 times with him and his wonderful wife Anne visiting and talking dogs.   Not sure where you boys get your information but please stop fantasizing and maybe experience something before you condemn it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Menacing, aren’t they?


There are obviously some seriously slow dudes hanging out here. Why would someone get a bunch of dogs that don't get along with other dogs, put them together, and expect them to work cooperatively? They would fight each other and not chase their quarry. Thanks for trying to educate the tards Heath.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

brownitisdown said:


> Depends on who gets drawer I know alot bowhunter that put in and hoping it turns out to be a bust


Every bow hunter who applies with the intent to take away opportunities from other hunters should be kicked in the nuts and then arrested for hunter harrassment. That's some anti hunting tactics and its crap. Grow up people.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> There are obviously some seriously slow dudes hanging out here. Why would someone get a bunch of dogs that don't get along with other dogs, put them together, and expect them to work cooperatively? They would fight each other and not chase their quarry. Thanks for trying to educate the tards Heath.


Maybe you should read up on some of the different breeds and their characteristics. Since you obviously don't have first hand experience with them. Some dogs are known for their grit...Airedales, terriers, Plots, Black mouth cur, kemmer curs, bulldogs and more. Do they get along with other dogs ??? Why yes, will they stand to be bullied by other dogs ??? No. They wont start no junk, but they wont tuck their tail between their legs and crawl off. Some dogs will pull hair and some will just bay or tree. Some are rougher than others. I know a lot of guys with hounds who don't like to coon hunt with others who have plots, they know the plots wont put up with that face barking and what competition guys call "fang pressure". Their just a different dog. I have a buddy that has a good plot he uses on hogs. The dog is fine in a pack, but he will tell you up front , when your loading Rambler...don't try to man handle him. Where we have to coon hunt, its very likely to have yard dog come in to our trees.


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Every bow hunter who applies with the intent to take away opportunities from other hunters should be kicked in the nuts and then arrested for hunter harrassment. That's some anti hunting tactics and its crap. Grow up people.



The folks who scheduled this hunt in the middle of, and ruining, archery season for the scores of RESIDENT archery hunters who hunt those WMAs, should be kicked in the nuts. 

Again, the timing. If the timing of the hunt was between the end of archery and before the first normal gun hunt, nobody would care. But no, the state decides to shaft the folks who are loyal to these WMA’s, the same folks who pay the lease, pay for the roads, pay for the food plots, pay for the wildlife techs who manage them, and pay for the arrogant bosses who manage the techs who made that decision. They scheduled this hunt so that non residents who hunt Tennessee and North Carolina could hunt Georgia. It’s a shame.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Hillbilly stalker said:


> Maybe you should read up on some of the different breeds and their characteristics. Since you obviously don't have first hand experience with them. Some dogs are known for their grit...Airedales, terriers, Plots, Black mouth cur, kemmer curs, bulldogs and more. Do they get along with other dogs ??? Why yes, will they stand to be bullied by other dogs ??? No. They wont start no junk, but they wont tuck their tail between their legs and crawl off. Some dogs will pull hair and some will just bay or tree. Some are rougher than others. I know a lot of guys with hounds who don't like to coon hunt with others who have plots, they know the plots wont put up with that face barking and what competition guys call "fang pressure". Their just a different dog. I have a buddy that has a good plot he uses on hogs. The dog is fine in a pack, but he will tell you up front , when your loading Rambler...don't try to man handle him. Where we have to coon hunt, its very likely to have yard dog come in to our trees.



I've done TONS of reading on different breeds and their characteristics. I breed and train dogs for a living and I generally have 15-20 dogs in my yard. Whether a dog has grit or not has very little bearing on if it will fight others or not. That comes down to how it was trained and handled MOST of the time. If another dogs picks a fight, that's a different story.


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

You don't train grit, a dog has it or they don't. But you do have to handle one differently that does have it. Big difference between a bird dog and a bear or hog dog.


----------



## Buckman18

Buckman18 said:


> The folks who scheduled this hunt in the middle of, and ruining, archery season for the scores of RESIDENT archery hunters who hunt those WMAs, should be kicked in the nuts.
> 
> Again, the timing. If the timing of the hunt was between the end of archery and before the first normal gun hunt, nobody would care. But no, the state decides to shaft the folks who are loyal to these WMA’s, the same folks who pay the lease, pay for the roads, pay for the food plots, pay for the wildlife techs who manage them, and pay for the arrogant bosses who manage the techs who made that decision. They scheduled this hunt so that non residents who hunt Tennessee and North Carolina could hunt Georgia. It’s a shame.



Even though Bowers decided to screw me and my fellow bow hunters, I want to congratulate him for his new role with DNR, and I bought him a gift to help him be successful. Anyone know the address he’s at so I can ship it to him?


----------



## Heath

Again, the timing. If the timing of the hunt was between the end of archery and before the first normal gun hunt, nobody would care. But no, the state decides to shaft the folks who are loyal to these WMA’s, the same folks who pay the lease, pay for the roads, pay for the food plots, pay for the wildlife techs who manage them, and pay for the arrogant bosses who manage the techs who made that decision. They scheduled this hunt so that non residents who hunt Tennessee and North Carolina could hunt Georgia. It’s a shame.[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with being uneducated about a subject,  but spinning it to suit your agenda is out right wrong.  This hunt wasn’t asked for by non resident hunters.  It’s been fought and begged for by the bear hunters in your very own state that showed up in numbers and presented factual data to biologists and game management for years.  They did it legally and finally had their voice heard.  I’m sorry you had your feelings hurt but last year the second archery hunt was 18 days and this year it’s 16 days.  The first hunt wasn’t effected.  I've read enough of a couple of you fellas comments to see that this isn’t about anything more than you don’t won’t to share.  Enough to also see that you hunt 3 Saturday’s out of an 18 day seasons and think these WMAs are pressured hard.  Try them Monday-Thurs.  You will find your archery deer cult is none existent for the most part except for me and a few others who take our hunting seriously.  
Hahahaha,  I guess WMA archery hunters are the only ones that pay license fees.  The rest of us dog hunters and Small game hunters should quit buying license since our funds aren’t used!  I’ll just keep giving my money to the other states I buy out of state license in!
Again,  most of you are watching way more YouTube videos and reading way more message boards than actual real life experience.  That’s fine but please keep your 3rd person opinions set aside from actual experience from first hand knowledge.  This is starting to get hysterical.  I think I’ll let y’all have your small little world back so you can wallow in it!


----------



## Heath

Hillbilly stalker said:


> You don't train grit, a dog has it or they don't. But you do have to handle one differently that does have it. Big difference between a bird dog and a bear or hog dog.



Again, you are confusing grit and aggression.  Entirely different. Dogs will have one or the other or neither or both.  If you choose to put up with aggression, don’t assume that everyone else does.


----------



## Buckman18

Heath said:


> Again, the timing. If the timing of the hunt was between the end of archery and before the first normal gun hunt, nobody would care. But no, the state decides to shaft the folks who are loyal to these WMA’s, the same folks who pay the lease, pay for the roads, pay for the food plots, pay for the wildlife techs who manage them, and pay for the arrogant bosses who manage the techs who made that decision. They scheduled this hunt so that non residents who hunt Tennessee and North Carolina could hunt Georgia. It’s a shame.



Nothing wrong with being uneducated about a subject,  but spinning it to suit your agenda is out right wrong.  This hunt wasn’t asked for by non resident hunters.  It’s been fought and begged for by the bear hunters in your very own state that showed up in numbers and presented factual data to biologists and game management for years.  They did it legally and finally had their voice heard.  I’m sorry you had your feelings hurt but last year the second archery hunt was 18 days and this year it’s 16 days.  The first hunt wasn’t effected.  I've read enough of a couple of you fellas comments to see that this isn’t about anything more than you don’t won’t to share.  Enough to also see that you hunt 3 Saturday’s out of an 18 day seasons and think these WMAs are pressured hard.  Try them Monday-Thurs.  You will find your archery deer cult is none existent for the most part except for me and a few others who take our hunting seriously. 
Hahahaha,  I guess WMA archery hunters are the only ones that pay license fees.  The rest of us dog hunters and Small game hunters should quit buying license since our funds aren’t used!  I’ll just keep giving my money to the other states I buy out of state license in!
Again,  most of you are watching way more YouTube videos and reading way more message boards than actual real life experience.  That’s fine but please keep your 3rd person opinions set aside from actual experience from first hand knowledge.  This is starting to get hysterical.  I think I’ll let y’all have your small little world back so you can wallow in it![/QUOTE]

Heath,
Nobody cares that the dog hunt is happening. If I get drawn, my folks have bear dogs. I’m willing to bet our dogs are better than your dogs. Everyone that bow hunts is upset about the timing. And I’ll leave the rest of the strange assumptions you pull out of thin air for you to wallow in.


----------



## Timberman

All I know is I’m gonna be way up high on a big rock somewhere the morning of the 28th to see and hear it!


----------



## livinoutdoors

Man ! I hope these bear dogs have better manners than some of yall are sayin, cuz at least one of them wmas is popular with dog walking hippie hiker types. Gonna be a pretty short lived idea if ya cant keep your dogs behavin on PUBLIC land


----------



## Hillbilly stalker

Heath said:


> Again, you are confusing grit and aggression.  Entirely different. Dogs will have one or the other or neither or both.  If you choose to put up with aggression, don’t assume that everyone else does.


Mister I'm not gonna argue with you, I'm not confusing the 2. Most people don't know the difference, but I do. I have trained multiple Patrol dogs, Belgian Malinois, Dutch Shepard's, Bouvier, German Shepard's and Rottweiler and a few Goldens for Narcotic detection. . I've grew up hunting hounds, curs and feist. I know how to bring the aggression out in a dog and I know how to handle it. Some have grit some don't. Most of the dogs I have mentioned have edge on them, not that they don't have a pack drive, but they have an edge. Majority of hounds have a stronger prey and pack drive. I don't put up with pure aggression out of a hunting dog, but a lot of times people don't recognize what they have seen. I hope every body has a great safe hunt. Now feel free to have the last word.


----------



## wks41

im Not a dog hunter but if I were I’d be upset at the way a couple of you are acting and representing the culture.  It’s not a good look.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> The folks who scheduled this hunt in the middle of, and ruining, archery season for the scores of RESIDENT archery hunters who hunt those WMAs, should be kicked in the nuts.
> 
> Again, the timing. If the timing of the hunt was between the end of archery and before the first normal gun hunt, nobody would care. But no, the state decides to shaft the folks who are loyal to these WMA’s, the same folks who pay the lease, pay for the roads, pay for the food plots, pay for the wildlife techs who manage them, and pay for the arrogant bosses who manage the techs who made that decision. They scheduled this hunt so that non residents who hunt Tennessee and North Carolina could hunt Georgia. It’s a shame.



If someone else getting to hunt one area for one week AFTER you get TWO WEEKS to have first crack at it ruins your archery season then you sir are not the hunter I thought you were. There are 450,000 other acres of CNF you can hunt if you're afraid of the hound hunters messing things up. Hunt coopers creek, swallow creek or warwoman if you really really need the food plots on a wma to be successful. 
Also, you're completely off base about who pays for the costs of maintaining a WMA. It is not locals. The money comes from Pitman-Roberts taxes (collected nationally and distributed based on state population) and license revenue. A resident sportsman license costs $65 while a non-resident costs $400. I'd say they're paying their fair share for 7 days of hunting.


----------



## strothershwacker

Good luck to all this season! Regardless of yer preferred huntin style. And quit the crying already! Sound like a buncha sissies!


----------



## Joe Brandon

Admins can we go a head and get these dog boys and their sympathizers their own little sub forum so we can get back to the comrade-re we typically share on here? The deer doggers have a sub forum. Let each hunt together or separate as much as they want.


----------



## Heath

Joe Brandon said:


> Admins can we go a head and get these dog boys and their sympathizers their own little sub forum so we can get back to the comrade-re we typically share on here? The deer doggers have a sub forum. Let each hunt together or separate as much as they want.



Why?  Why can’t we all share the same resources without it being your way or the highway.  The only reason I responded to any of this in the first place was because we dog hunters are being misrepresented in the first place.  I don’t know why the two sides can’t agree to share. Its always baffled me because I enjoy both worlds and the two have never been a problem for me.  I train dogs in the same places that I still hunt, coon hunt where I deer hunt.  Most times I scout ground doing one that helps while doing the other.  You get an extremely small sample size on these forums and most don’t understand the other side of the fence. For some reason each side feels theirs is right and the other is wrong.  If my posts seem that I favor one over the other, I’m sorry to have misrepresented my thoughts.  Both sides deserve equal opportunity,  it’s hard for me to see where any group should have more hunting opportunities than another being as we are all suppose to be equal.
I’ve never seen all these “Gritty” bear dogs cause nearly as many problems as the people that own them.  Please don’t judge an entire group for a few bad apples.  I know plenty of dog hunters that are respectful and down right good dog men that don’t have any problems with anyone and have never had there dogs jump on someone’s pet.  That is all negative propaganda that all hunters should work to remove from our midst.  Weather it’s intentional sabotage or they really don’t know any better.  
I’m elated that we live in a place where we have opportunities in hunting growing by leaps and bounds.  Seems some would be more content to snuff it out!


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> If someone else getting to hunt one area for one week AFTER you get TWO WEEKS to have first crack at it ruins your archery season then you sir are not the hunter I thought you were. There are 450,000 other acres of CNF you can hunt if you're afraid of the hound hunters messing things up. Hunt coopers creek, swallow creek or warwoman if you really really need the food plots on a wma to be successful.
> Also, you're completely off base about who pays for the costs of maintaining a WMA. It is not locals. The money comes from Pitman-Roberts taxes (collected nationally and distributed based on state population) and license revenue. A resident sportsman license costs $65 while a non-resident costs $400. I'd say they're paying their fair share for 7 days of hunting.



George W Bush said the best way to get a point across is Repetition, Repetition, Repetition...

I have no problem with the hunt, just the timing. The archery hunters are getting the shaft. Our RESIDENT archery hunters. I shouldn’t have to drive elsewhere to hunt when I live 10 minutes from a WMA, although I’ve killed at all the ones you’ve mentioned, and many more.

And, Tio, food plots ain’t my scene. I just pay for them.


----------



## Joe Brandon

Heath said:


> Why?  Why can’t we all share the same resources without it being your way or the highway.  The only reason I responded to any of this in the first place was because we dog hunters are being misrepresented in the first place.  I don’t know why the two sides can’t agree to share. Its always baffled me because I enjoy both worlds and the two have never been a problem for me.  I train dogs in the same places that I still hunt, coon hunt where I deer hunt.  Most times I scout ground doing one that helps while doing the other.  You get an extremely small sample size on these forums and most don’t understand the other side of the fence. For some reason each side feels theirs is right and the other is wrong.  If my posts seem that I favor one over the other, I’m sorry to have misrepresented my thoughts.  Both sides deserve equal opportunity,  it’s hard for me to see where any group should have more hunting opportunities than another being as we are all suppose to be equal.
> I’ve never seen all these “Gritty” bear dogs cause nearly as many problems as the people that own them.  Please don’t judge an entire group for a few bad apples.  I know plenty of dog hunters that are respectful and down right good dog men that don’t have any problems with anyone and have never had there dogs jump on someone’s pet.  That is all negative propaganda that all hunters should work to remove from our midst.  Weather it’s intentional sabotage or they really don’t know any better.
> I’m elated that we live in a place where we have opportunities in hunting growing by leaps and bounds.  Seems some would be more content to snuff it out!


Nope obviously not. Ya'll have done nothing but come on here and raise ruckus. Havent seen alot of you on the forum until now. And there has been nothing but bashing. We dont operate that way. Hog/dog, deer/dog have their own subs and I see why. Yall will have your own soon enough.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> George W Bush said the best way to get a point across is Repetition, Repetition, Repetition...
> 
> I have no problem with the hunt, just the timing. The archery hunters are getting the shaft. Our RESIDENT archery hunters. I shouldn’t have to drive elsewhere to hunt when I live 10 minutes from a WMA, although I’ve killed at all the ones you’ve mentioned, and many more.
> 
> And, Tio, food plots ain’t my scene. I just pay for them.



If food plots aren't your scene then why are you crapping a brick over hunting WMA'S? Food plots are the only thing that distinguishes WMA from the rest of NF. 
Once again, being a resident doesn't matter even the slightest because non-residents pay close to 4x what you do to maintain our WMA's. In fact, you should probably thank them for giving money to an area you get to enjoy more than them, since it's 10 minutes from your house. 
What this boils down to is you feel entitled to more than someone else who buys into the same system. 
How do you figure archery hunters are getting the shaft when you get twice as much time AND you get to go first? I archery hunt and I could care less about hound hunters coming in and cleaning up my leftovers.


----------



## Pig Predator

The archery hunters do realize that they can archery hunt all the way through to January 31st in some counties, Right? Just because rifle opens doesn't mean that you have to hunt with a rifle....


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> If food plots aren't your scene then why are you crapping a brick over hunting WMA'S? Food plots are the only thing that distinguishes WMA from the rest of NF.
> Once again, being a resident doesn't matter even the slightest because non-residents pay close to 4x what you do to maintain our WMA's. In fact, you should probably thank them for giving money to an area you get to enjoy more than them, since it's 10 minutes from your house.
> What this boils down to is you feel entitled to more than someone else who buys into the same system.
> How do you figure archery hunters are getting the shaft when you get twice as much time AND you get to go first? I archery hunt and I could care less about hound hunters coming in and cleaning up my leftovers.



There’s an easy solution for the dog hunt: schedule it to take place between the end of the traditional archery season and before the first traditional rifle hunt. 

Nobody is negatively impacted that way. And the dog hunters, myself included, get to hunt more. It would be a win win for everyone. How would they do this in Meriwether County?


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Pig Predator said:


> The archery hunters do realize that they can archery hunt all the way through to January 31st in some counties, Right? Just because rifle opens doesn't mean that you have to hunt with a rifle....


But...but...dogs...and guns...and out of state hunters...whaaa  ?


----------



## Pig Predator

Buckman18 said:


> There’s an easy solution for the dog hunt: schedule it to take place between the end of the traditional archery season and before the first traditional rifle hunt.
> 
> Nobody is negatively impacted that way. And the dog hunters, myself included, get to hunt more. It would be a win win for everyone. How would they do this in Meriwether County?


No, then I think the rifle hunters would feel like they got the short straw.


----------



## Buckman18

Pig Predator said:


> No, then I think the rifle hunters would feel like they got the short straw.



The rifle hunters wouldn’t be giving up a thing?


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Pig Predator said:


> No, then I think the rifle hunters would feel like they got the short straw.



Argeed. Stunning logic at work there. "Just take it away from someone besides me, then everyone wins."?


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> The rifle hunters wouldn’t be giving up a thing?


Either them or black powder would loose days if you did it that way. Unless we make the year longer.


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Either them or black powder would loose days if you did it that way. Unless we make the year longer.


There are no scheduled black powder or rifle hunts during that time. Or in the first 3 weeks of November. Or nearly the entire month of December. Or any kind of big game hunting scheduled the first 2 weeks of September this year.

Like I said, either way. I’m a winner. Odds are I’ll be tagged out before the scheduled dog hunt anyway, so I’ll probably just be hanging with the fam trying to get nephews and cousins and my daughter bears if we get drawn.


----------



## Pig Predator

Buckman18 said:


> The rifle hunters wouldn’t be giving up a thing?


Dog scent all over the mountains would be the complaint. I don't care either way myself either.  I just want to be part of it all, like yourself. I'm just sayin, someone is going to complain about something.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

This year archery hunters and gun hunters BOTH get 24 days to hunt bear on both Chestatee and Chattahoochee. Hound hunters get 7. 
Archery hunters get to go first. Archery hunters can take bucks or bear for the entire 24 days, while for gun hunters, 7 of 24 days are bear only. 
I don't see how these facts can be interpreted as archers getting shafted.


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> This year archery hunters and gun hunters BOTH get 24 days to hunt bear on both Chestatee and Chattahoochee. Hound hunters get 7.
> Archery hunters get to go first. Archery hunters can take bucks or bear for the entire 24 days, while for gun hunters, 7 of 24 days are bear only.
> I don't see how these facts can be interpreted as archers getting shafted.



You should save one of your bear tags, and try to gig one on Chestatee or Chattahoochee when archery season opens back up after the dog hunt.

We can start a thread and everyone can watch the process, the ups and downs. Shouldn’t be hard. The whole membership will be watching you. But it should be an easy bear.


----------



## Heath

Joe Brandon said:


> Nope obviously not. Ya'll have done nothing but come on here and raise ruckus. Havent seen alot of you on the forum until now. And there has been nothing but bashing. We dont operate that way. Hog/dog, deer/dog have their own subs and I see why. Yall will have your own soon enough.



Hahahahaha,  let’s see.  You’ve been a member since 2013 and made over 723 posts.  I’ve been a member since 2005 and made 52.  Who do think is a bigger blow hard?
  Must be tuff to only be the first big game hunters allowed in the woods and Then have to allow someone else an opportunity for 7 days before you get an entire 2 and a half month to continue on hunting!  But this isn’t about that is it.  It’s about dreamed up excuses and what everyone should do to cater to another select few.  

I wonder why they keep dodging the question about hunting the other 700,000 plus acres that make up the Chattahoochee/Oconee national forest.  Cause its not about hunting it’s about spoiled people getting their way or they take their ball and run home.  It’s like these excuses about ruining their hunting, and catching pets, and taking away there privileges.  All nonsense.  One guy has even made sure I know that his family has far better dogs than mine.  I have no doubt.  If you’ll re-read all 55 of my post history you’ll see I never claimed to have better or even good dogs.  I don’t “tag along occasionally” and then profess to be the guru everyone should consult before management decisions are made. I catch real live bears with my own real live dogs.  No group necessary, 90% alone with 1-3 dogs. Occasionally  I hunt with another man or two that hunt the same way.  I also kill real live game in those same places.  Bear, Hog, Deer, Turkey’s and in 3 different states every year.  Not because I’m good, but because I hunt and hunt hard.  If you fellas would spend more time hunting, you wouldn’t have to make as many excuses.  It’s real hard to kill em on the internet!  Have a good night,  I’ve got to get collars charged, and truck loaded up cause they ain’t gonna tree themselves in the morning!


----------



## jbogg

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> This year archery hunters and gun hunters BOTH get 24 days to hunt bear on both Chestatee and Chattahoochee. Hound hunters get 7.
> Archery hunters get to go first. Archery hunters can take bucks or bear for the entire 24 days, while for gun hunters, 7 of 24 days are bear only.
> I don't see how these facts can be interpreted as archers getting shafted.



Tio you seem to be tone deaf to the timing argument.  There are less than a handful of bear that fall to bow hunters each year on those WMAs.  I’m not sure how many you have taken with a bow but I’m certain that you understand the difficulty.  No doubt that dog hunting is physically demanding for the hunter, but with good dogs getting a bear into shooting range is not where the challenge lies as evidenced by Greg-n-Clayton’s admission that his four young pups recently treed two bear in one day.

Most guys are lucky to get to hunt weekends only, and the window to get it done this year with a bow on one of those WMAs is essentially two weeks.   Bear react very differently than deer when pressured by hounds. A deer has a relatively small core area and will circle back to its home range every time.  Studies have shown that radio collared bears will often travel 20 miles or more within a day or two of being pressured by hounds. Nine groups of hunters with up to 10 hunters in each group, with no limit to the number of dogs, and no limit to the number of bears killed will have a substantial impact on the number of bears remaining on those two WMAs for weeks after the hunt is over.  I am speaking as a bear hunter, not a Deer Hunter.  Nobody whining here. Just stating the facts. Push the hunt back a few weeks and there would likely be little to no resistance.


----------



## Heath

Joe Brandon said:


> Nope obviously not. Ya'll have done nothing but come on here and raise ruckus. Havent seen alot of you on the forum until now. And there has been nothing but bashing. We dont operate that way. Hog/dog, deer/dog have their own subs and I see why. Yall will have your own soon enough.



Here’s another before I go.  I was a member on here for 8 years before you ever signed on and never had a disagreement with a soul.  Actually, never felt the need to contradict someone who was spouting of lies.  Then recently, we have to defend our honor against supposed hunters within our ranks.  Who’s the trouble maker oh wise one?
It’s a two way street.  Point that finger and 4 point back at you!


----------



## Heath

jbogg said:


> Tio you seem to be tone deaf to the timing argument.  There are less than a handful of bear that fall to bow hunters each year on those WMAs.  I’m not sure how many you have taken with a bow but I’m certain that you understand the difficulty.  No doubt that dog hunting is physically demanding for the hunter, but with good dogs getting a bear into shooting range is not where the challenge lies as evidenced by Greg-n-Clayton’s admission that his four young pups recently treed two bear in one day.
> 
> Most guys are lucky to get to hunt weekends only, and the window to get it done this year with a bow on one of those WMAs is essentially two weeks.   Bear react very differently than deer when pressured by hounds. A deer has a relatively small core area and will circle back to its home range every time.  Studies have shown that radio collared bears will often travel 20 miles or more within a day or two of being pressured by hounds. Nine groups of hunters with up to 10 hunters in each group, with no limit to the number of dogs, and no limit to the number of bears killed will have a substantial impact on the number of bears remaining on those two WMAs for weeks after the hunt is over.  I am speaking as a bear hunter, not a Deer Hunter.  Nobody whining here. Just stating the facts. Push the hunt back a few weeks and there would likely be little to no resistance.



JBogg, you seem like a stand up guy.  I don’t usually take people because they can’t be trusted to leave my places alone but this hunt is not somewhere I can normally hunt so I would love for you to come with me for 3 or 4 days in a row if I get a lucky draw.  I can ease your fears about dog hunting being an easier method or that it displaces game.   Bring comfortable boots and a strong back with enough food to sleep on the ground.  I don’t ride around in a truck like you’ll see on T.V.  You can kill every bear we tree as long as it’s a legal bear.  I don’t have a blood lust anymore.


----------



## Joe Brandon

Heath said:


> Here’s another before I go.  I was a member on here for 8 years before you ever signed on and never had a disagreement with a soul.  Actually, never felt the need to contradict someone who was spouting of lies.  Then recently, we have to defend our honor against supposed hunters within our ranks.  Who’s the trouble maker oh wise one?
> It’s a two way street.  Point that finger and 4 point back at you!


Buddy have a good day. God bless you and your dogs.


----------



## jbogg

Heath said:


> JBogg, you seem like a stand up guy.  I don’t usually take people because they can’t be trusted to leave my places alone but this hunt is not somewhere I can normally hunt so I would love for you to come with me for 3 or 4 days in a row if I get a lucky draw.  I can ease your fears about dog hunting being an easier method or that it displaces game.   Bring comfortable boots and a strong back with enough food to sleep on the ground.  I don’t ride around in a truck like you’ll see on T.V.  You can kill every bear we tree as long as it’s a legal bear.  I don’t have a blood lust anymore.



Thanks for the invite, but I have no doubt that I could not keep up with you boys in those hills.  I did not mean to imply that dog hunting is easy, just that it is not reliant on the timing of the white oaks ripening.  If the state moved the dog hunt back 3 - 4 weeks I am certain the success of dog hunters would be as high or higher than the current timing without negatively impacting another Hunter segment.


----------



## ddd-shooter

I hope the dog hunters are successful. I hope the archery guys are successful. I hope I run into both in my travels and can help them out in any way. Including dragging. 
I’d be glad to share a fire with either group, as I love hunting and respectful hunters. 
I also hope the bear population takes a nice hit soon. We have too many. I would love to see an earlier bear hunt, before acorns drop, for this very reason. 

Good luck to all.


----------



## Cwb19

I have an honest question for the dog hunters how do you make sure your dog's stay on the wma


----------



## Buckman18

Cwb19 said:


> I have an honest question for the dog hunters how do you make sure your dog's stay on the wma



The short answer is there are no guarantees. Bear/hog rallies can extend for miles and miles. Literally it is possible for a rally to start in Cleveland, and end up in Clarkesville. Both WMA’s in question have wilderness areas, and the backside of both border National Forest, so this will help minimize conflicts. Hopefully none of the rallies end up in the settlement at the base of the WMA’s, but there are no guarantees.


----------



## Buckman18

Buckman18 said:


> You should save one of your bear tags, and try to gig one on Chestatee or Chattahoochee when archery season opens back up after the dog hunt.
> 
> We can start a thread and everyone can watch the process, the ups and downs. Shouldn’t be hard. The whole membership will be watching you. But it should be an easy bear.



@Tio Hey Seuss,

Maybe you missed it earlier but I was wondering if You are gonna save a tag and kill an easy archery bear after the dog hunt?

Everyone will be watching, and you may earn the title of Genuine American Sportsman?


----------



## livinoutdoors

Buckman18 said:


> The short answer is there are no guarantees. Bear/hog rallies can extend for miles and miles. Literally it is possible for a rally to start in Cleveland, and end up in Clarkesville. Both WMA’s in question have wilderness areas, and the backside of both border National Forest, so this will help minimize conflicts. Hopefully none of the rallies end up in the settlement at the base of the WMA’s, but there are no guarantees.


Now id pay good money to see em run in downtown helen!


----------



## Cwb19

Thanks buckman  I gave up hunting chatt wma in favor of surrounding nf a few years back hopefully they can keep them contained. Hate to think y'all lost the wmas and we still have to contend with them on nf


----------



## Heath

jbogg said:


> Thanks for the invite, but I have no doubt that I could not keep up with you boys in those hills.  I did not mean to imply that dog hunting is easy, just that it is not reliant on the timing of the white oaks ripening.  If the state moved the dog hunt back 3 - 4 weeks I am certain the success of dog hunters would be as high or higher than the current timing without negatively impacting another Hunter segment.



I won’t take you Snipe hunting,  I’m a little out of shape myself.   My bear hunting is strictly reliant on acorn crops and other natural food sources depending on time of year.  I see what you are saying, I really do.  My opinion, is they chose that timing for numerous reasons.  Dogs cannot read and property boundaries can be crossed.  They will have far more hunters in the woods surrounding these areas if moved into deer gun season thus minimizing conflict if a situation arises.  Then,  this hunt was offered as an alternative means to reduce bear numbers that the state has unsuccessfully been able to control.  Still hunters haven’t made much of a dent in a steadily growing bear population and it’s costing the state big money.  Another reason could be that there aren’t as many bear dog owners in this state and it allowed our surrounding states hunters to hunt without interfering with their respective seasons.  They also get far better paybacks on out of state license fees.  It’s a win win for the state and all hunters.  Unfortunately, there will always be pushback and they can’t make everyone happy as we both know.  I guess I’m not understanding why some are so bent against it when they can hunt literally hundreds of thousands of acres outside of these two 25,000 acre tracts.  More bear are taken outside of those boundaries already.  Why is it so crucial to these men that nobody else have the same chance they have had for decades when they will already get a week before a week after and can archery hunt the entire deer season as well.  You have a sound mind and I would like you to help me understand.

As for bears being harder to kill afterward,  it’s just not so.  I run and tree the same bear often.  I even have some that I wouldn’t kill for all the money in the world because I have known them for years and years and some are great pup trainers and I’ve got one or two I wish someone would kill because they run like a scalded Haint and make for long days and nights.  Those are resident bear that I have relationships with and could recognize them out of a lineup because of unique features like cropped ears, scars on there heads or muzzles etc.  I also tree bear that are move ins or transient bear that I know I’ve never seen before. I also have 2 or 3 people that I tell about bears I want killed during archery season and deer season and those men are dang good at taking care of them because they hunt hard and know how and where to make it happen.  I can tree them 3 or 4 times during training season and tell them exactly where and what they were eating and doing 2 days ago and those men will kill them in 2 or 3 days.  On one hand I hate to see them go but if they’ve become a problem or have caught a dog and are getting a little to brave I’d just as soon someone else enjoy the opportunity.  I have 3 that are perfect.  They are in 2 different counties and one a different state.  But I can tell you exactly which bear it is when he’s up and running and typically where he’s headed.  These things were taught to me by men who were the best at what they did.  It’s nothing new or that I invented. People have a fear of dog hunting because they don’t understand it and that’s not their fault but spreading hearsay and unfounded knowledge is not needed.  I’ve never had these problems of not being able to have a chance at harvesting bear or deer while hunting the same places I hunt year round.  I don’t think I’m a great hunter either,  I think I was taught correctly and am willing to learn and adapt and understand how all game responds to certain things.  I absolutely want you to succeed at everything you do but not at the expense of others out of pure selfishness.

I hope that’s not offensive because I really would like to show you a whole world that most are too close minded to even try and understand without bias.


----------



## tree cutter 08

I've got a feeling if these dog hunts don't run like a sewing machine they will be over before they get started good. So far it sounds like it's going to be off to a rocky start. I'd be getting my dogs some reading glasses.


----------



## Timberman

tree cutter 08 said:


> I've got a feeling if these dog hunts don't run like a sewing machine they will be over before they get started good. So far it sounds like it's going to be off to a rocky start. I'd be getting my dogs some reading glasses.




Lols if someone gets on a big bear that won’t tree just walk and fight and he takes the dogs down thru a nest of cabins on Saturday morning....


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> @Tio Hey Seuss,
> 
> Maybe you missed it earlier but I was wondering if You are gonna save a tag and kill an easy archery bear after the dog hunt?
> 
> Everyone will be watching, and you may earn the title of Genuine American Sportsman?



Aren't you precious! Maybe you missed it earlier when I said to grow up. I've already got that title. You can tell by how I'm not throwing a tantrum because someone else gets a turn.


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Aren't you precious! Maybe you missed it earlier when I said to grow up. I've already got that title. You can tell by how I'm not throwing a tantrum because someone else gets a turn.



You’ll have PLENTY of archery time after the dogs, Tio!!! Save a tag, and kill a bear after they’ve been playing with the dogs! They’ll be so tame they’ll probably walk right up to you and want their belly rubbed!

Prove me wrong with the entire membership watching! Unless, perhaps, you don’t think you can?


----------



## Buckman18

Buckman18 said:


> You’ll have PLENTY of archery time after the dogs, Tio!!! Save a tag, and kill a bear after they’ve been playing with the dogs! They’ll be so tame they’ll probably walk right up to you and want their belly rubbed!
> 
> Prove me wrong with the entire membership watching! Unless, perhaps, you don’t think you can?



It’s just a friendly challenge amongst friends!  Let’s include hogs also. Bear OR Hog.


----------



## gobbleinwoods

Any volunteer willing to loan any dog hunter a bow and let them prove how easy it is to kill a bear after the dog days in the WMA in question?


----------



## livinoutdoors

Serious question for the dog hunters. Do you feel like you bump a good bit of hogs when you are runnin bears? Does the extra activity of the bear dog hunt get the hogs movin around in the general area? Askin for a friend who might set up at the edge of a wma and wait for some hogs to come pourin out of it.


----------



## Buckman18

livinoutdoors said:


> Serious question for the dog hunters. Do you feel like you bump a good bit of hogs when you are runnin bears? Does the extra activity of the bear dog hunt get the hogs movin around in the general area? Askin for a friend who might set up at the edge of a wma and wait for some hogs to come pourin out of it.



Just speaking for me and mine, I’d rather the dogs strike a big nasty hog. The fight is usually more exciting than a bear treeing. That said, a big boar bear can put up a good fight also.


----------



## Christian hughey

I will be in the hills somewhere wether I get selected or not. If you bear dog guys wanna meet up and do some hunting, good or you guys can keep complaining about nothing and I will sit on a hill top and wait with my bow as your dogs run them my way nothing wrong with either tactic if I am drawn, that's the point of a quota if you are selected have fun if I get it, wish me luck. Second off if your dog shows aggression towards me or mine he will be a dead dog. Self defense is self defense and the only argument I have heard on this forum from the archery guys is the timing and if you bear dog guys cant get over yourselves and agree that it's a valid concern then we will just agree to disagree, we aren't coming together to kick your hunt out of georgia or nothing. Some of us prefer to see it happen a little earlier before archery season or later which is a valid argument in my opinion as we have learned earlier in this forum, neither opinion is worth that dogs ? when it comes down to it. State regulates these things with not much public opinion in mind. I wasn't there personally but I heard there was just as much public opinion at that meeting to oppose the timing specifically of this matter, but the board has been trying to push this through for years now so with little public opinion that fits their agenda here we are, good luck to all this season. I will post em up as they hit the ground.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

I run dogs (tree dogs)!! And personally, I think the admins and mods have let this thread too far !! It has became a bashing thread (to a point).


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Or....maybe move it to the political forums !! Geeezzzzz


----------



## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> I run dogs (tree dogs)!! And personally, I think the admins and mods have let this thread too far !! It has became a bashing thread (to a point).


I don't take this as a bashing you have your point of view and I have mine. If I'm choosen and you have good dogs to run I will be happy to team up with some guys on here with their dogs and get this done. If I didn't apply I certainly doubt I would get an invite, more than likely you would take your buds and it would be an unfair lost opportunity for me. But since I applied that gives me a small chance of organizing a small group with some good dogs and that sir is what I am getting at. If the archery hunt gets cut short no reason I should get cut out. Hopefully all selected can have a group like this to discuss tactics, and areas to keep a well organized hunt and keep all guys and hounds safe.


----------



## Buckman18

greg_n_clayton said:


> I run dogs (tree dogs)!! And personally, I think the admins and mods have let this thread too far !! It has became a bashing thread (to a point).



Greg,

I think I met you a couple years back? We were running dogs in N.E. Rabun kind of close to Holcomb Creek? You were in an older model F-150? Long, white beard? I was in a Black Chevy with my uncle and cousin from the NC side? Or Did I meet a different Greg?


----------



## Cwb19

Not trying to start a fuss but another honest guestion how can you tell if the sow you treed wasn't split from her cubs or are we gonna have a bunch of orphen cubs running around


----------



## Pig Predator

Buckman18 said:


> Greg,
> 
> I think I met you a couple years back? We were running dogs in N.E. Rabun kind of close to Holcomb Creek? You were in an older model F-150? Long, white beard? I was in a Black Chevy with my uncle and cousin from the NC side? Or Did I meet a different Greg?


I know Greg. I dont think he could grow a long white beard and he drives a old yota.


----------



## Buckman18

Cwb19 said:


> Not trying to start a fuss but another honest guestion how can you tell if the sow you treed wasn't split from her cubs or are we gonna have a bunch of orphen cubs running around



I can only speak for me and mine, but we don’t shoot sow bears running with dogs. They get a pass.


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Aren't you precious! Maybe you missed it earlier when I said to grow up. I've already got that title. You can tell by how I'm not throwing a tantrum because someone else gets a turn.



So, are you going to save a tag and bowhunt these WMA’s after the dog hunt? I never got a clear answer from you? Another benefit, I’m willing to bet, is that you’ll have two entire WMA’s all to yourself... Piece of cake. 

Oh, and I am precious! Thanks for noticing!


----------



## Killer Kyle

Gotta real question for the dog hunters here....
Would you be in opposition if the state move the hunt from the combined 50,000 acres of Chattahoochee to the 94,000 acres of Cohutta? Not only is there more room to roam, but the state could increase the quota draw. There are as many bears there, and twice the amount of room to run. Dogs wouldn't get set out in the same places as much day after day. Is it a crazy idea to move it there? I think the timing is a critical issue. I think so because archery hunters need first dibs on the white oak drop. On that prime window. It is because of the handicap of archery equipment. Your longest shot is maximum 50 yards for an excellent archer. We traditionally give archers some time knowing that the limitations of the bow require great skill to get it done up close and with a stick and a string. It is a time when bears concentrate on those food sources. An archery hunter can ONLY kill a bear if it is within 40 or 50 yards range of the hunter. But hounds are advantageous because they can hunt invisible sign that HUMAN  hunters cannot detect...scent. An archer hunting good bear sign has a kill radius of maximum 50 yards. A dog hunter has an immeasurable kill radius because his dogs can range out for him and generally can reel him into the exact location of a treed or bayed bear.
Although hound hunting is not easier when you factor in the time spent training dogs, feeding them, and the physical effort required to actually hunt with them, the hound hunter is operating with an extraordinary, INCREDIBLE advantage in terms to ending up with a bear within killing range. They are hunting with tools that can detect things archery hunters cannot. That kinda sounds like an unfair advantage.  If hounds can tree a bear a day, or two bears a day, think about how many archery hunters in this state could manage to get a shot opportunity on a bear on their own accord in a day? Very few because they are hunting within the limitations of archery equipment. The simple fact is that hound hunters don't NEED the most PRIME window of opportunity that archers need because their dogs can strike a track, try and tree the bear, and bring the hunter to them. An archer is confined to an incredibly TINY kill radius when still hunting. A still hunting archer can hunt a maximum 50 yard radius. Hounds can hunt a 500 yard radius.
I don't see why dog hunters can't see that merely pushing the hunt back just a few weeks would end all of this fuss. Nobody is trying to get rid of this allotted hunt. NOBODY!!! I asked for a dog hunt at the 2016 regs meeting in Homer even though I didn't know a single bear/hound hunter. I thought it was fair for the hound hunters!!! Me, we, ALL OF US are simply asking for it to be 3 or 4 weeks later. Why can't you hound guys comprehend all of this? I was and am on your side!!! It is such an incredibly simple fix. Just a few weeks later.
Heath has already informed myself and the majority of us here that we don't have valid opinions since the majority of us here aren't real hunters. I assume he never realized that I spend 7 days per week on Chattahoochee WMA. As such, I know my opinion doesn't count. He made that blatantly clear. I'm sure you'll show up with a well argued point Heath, but these are real considerations. Why not just answer them plainly instead of claiming nobody here but yourself is a bona fide hunter? Answer this question for all of us to witness here...is pushing the dog hunt date back 3 or 4 weeks a hysterical idea? If so, explain in detail why. 
TioHeysuss, you know me personally man. You know I am on the WMA every single day. You can see here that nobody is trying to take a houndsman's turn. We are simply asking for the hunt date to be a few weeks later. Is that an insane idea?


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Pig Predator said:


> I know Greg. I dont think he could grow a long white beard and he drives a old yota.


LOL....i did have once upon a time !!


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> I don't take this as a bashing you have your point of view and I have mine. If I'm choosen and you have good dogs to run I will be happy to team up with some guys on here with their dogs and get this done. If I didn't apply I certainly doubt I would get an invite, more than likely you would take your buds and it would be an unfair lost opportunity for me. But since I applied that gives me a small chance of organizing a small group with some good dogs and that sir is what I am getting at. If the archery hunt gets cut short no reason I should get cut out. Hopefully all selected can have a group like this to discuss tactics, and areas to keep a well organized hunt and keep all guys and hounds safe.


I don't have a dog in this fight ! I don't give a rat's donkey one way or another ! These mountain folks, if they want a mess of bear meat......well.....it is plentiful !! DANG !


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Buckman18 said:


> Greg,
> 
> I think I met you a couple years back? We were running dogs in N.E. Rabun kind of close to Holcomb Creek? You were in an older model F-150? Long, white beard? I was in a Black Chevy with my uncle and cousin from the NC side? Or Did I meet a different Greg?


Yep....maybe....on or off overflow and hale ridge !!


----------



## Buckman18

greg_n_clayton said:


> Yep....maybe....on or off overflow and hale ridge !!



I’m not too familiar with all the roads in that area, don’t go over there very often. I just remember lots of hogs! Hope your doing well, and keeping everything straight on your side of the mountain!


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Killer Kyle said:


> Gotta real question for the dog hunters here....
> Would you be in opposition if the state move the hunt from the combined 50,000 acres of Chattahoochee to the 94,000 acres of Cohutta? Not only is there more room to roam, but the state could increase the quota draw. There are as many bears there, and twice the amount of room to run. Dogs wouldn't get set out in the same places as much day after day. Is it a crazy idea to move it there? I think the timing is a critical issue. I think so because archery hunters need first dibs on the white oak drop. On that prime window. It is because of the handicap of archery equipment. Your longest shot is maximum 50 yards for an excellent archer. We traditionally give archers some time knowing that the limitations of the bow require great skill to get it done up close and with a stick and a string. It is a time when bears concentrate on those food sources. An archery hunter can ONLY kill a bear if it is within 40 or 50 yards range of the hunter. But hounds are advantageous because they can hunt invisible sign that HUMAN  hunters cannot detect...scent. An archer hunting good bear sign has a kill radius of maximum 50 yards. A dog hunter has an immeasurable kill radius because his dogs can range out for him and generally can reel him into the exact location of a treed or bayed bear.
> Although hound hunting is not easier when you factor in the time spent training dogs, feeding them, and the physical effort required to actually hunt with them, the hound hunter is operating with an extraordinary, INCREDIBLE advantage in terms to ending up with a bear within killing range. They are hunting with tools that can detect things archery hunters cannot. That kinda sounds like an unfair advantage.  If hounds can tree a bear a day, or two bears a day, think about how many archery hunters in this state could manage to get a shot opportunity on a bear on their own accord in a day? Very few because they are hunting within the limitations of archery equipment. The simple fact is that hound hunters don't NEED the most PRIME window of opportunity that archers need because their dogs can strike a track, try and tree the bear, and bring the hunter to them. An archer is confined to an incredibly TINY kill radius when still hunting. A still hunting archer can hunt a maximum 50 yard radius. Hounds can hunt a 500 yard radius.
> I don't see why dog hunters can't see that merely pushing the hunt back just a few weeks would end all of this fuss. Nobody is trying to get rid of this allotted hunt. NOBODY!!! I asked for a dog hunt at the 2016 regs meeting in Homer even though I didn't know a single bear/hound hunter. I thought it was fair for the hound hunters!!! Me, we, ALL OF US are simply asking for it to be 3 or 4 weeks later. Why can't you hound guys comprehend all of this? I was and am on your side!!! It is such an incredibly simple fix. Just a few weeks later.
> Heath has already informed myself and the majority of us here that we don't have valid opinions since the majority of us here aren't real hunters. I assume he never realized that I spend 7 days per week on Chattahoochee WMA. As such, I know my opinion doesn't count. He made that blatantly clear. I'm sure you'll show up with a well argued point Heath, but these are real considerations. Why not just answer them plainly instead of claiming nobody here but yourself is a bona fide hunter? Answer this question for all of us to witness here...is pushing the dog hunt date back 3 or 4 weeks a hysterical idea? If so, explain in detail why.
> TioHeysuss, you know me personally man. You know I am on the WMA every single day. You can see here that nobody is trying to take a houndsman's turn. We are simply asking for the hunt date to be a few weeks later. Is that an insane idea?



I agree with you for the most part but there definitely are people here trying to take a turn from houndsman. Numerous people have suggested flooding the draw with phony applications in hopes that legitimate houndsmen don't draw. I think that's messed up. I think everyone deserves a shot at prime time for bear and I think we have plenty of public land to give everyone that opportunity. 

I'm sure hound hunters wouldn't mind Cohutta but I think they scheduled this hunt where they did because we need to reduce bear numbers around Helen and stillhunting hasn't done that.

Hunting with hounds is absolutely easier than hunting with a bow. Success rates are way higher. That being said, we bow hunters choose to handicap ourselves, presumably for the challenge. How much special consideration can we really expect because of our choice of weapon? We already get to go first, get to hunt longer and have more territory to choose from. I hunt with a trad bow. My effective range is 25 yards on a good day. Modern crossbows stack 2" groups at 100 yards with a total newbie on the trigger. Thats comparable to rifle performance. Should I kick and scream and demand a "traditional only" season? Not in my opinion.

All I'm saying is I don't think this is then end of the world and I don't see it ruining the season. We are very lucky to have tons public land, long seasons and liberal bag limits. I don't understand why some folks are loosing their mind over a one week hunt in a relatively small area.


----------



## DeucesWild

Looking at the regs, I see where there is going to be a 7 day rifle season(9/21-9/27) for bear on both chattahoochee and chestatee the week before the dog hunt. Appears to be a sign in hunt. Those two weeks will have em up and moving about.


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## Tio Hey Seuss

If I was to complain about this hunt, my complaint would be in regards to the number of people each person can bring. 9 people and their dogs isn't bad on 25,000 but 90 people and their dogs...that seems excessive to me. I'm also concerned about how many dogs each "team" can use. If each dude has 4 or 5 that's not bad but if they each run a pack of 10 or more...that's a lot of dogs on that little chunk of land.


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## Christian hughey

Killer Kyle said:


> Gotta real question for the dog hunters here....
> Would you be in opposition if the state move the hunt from the combined 50,000 acres of Chattahoochee to the 94,000 acres of Cohutta? Not only is there more room to roam, but the state could increase the quota draw. There are as many bears there, and twice the amount of room to run. Dogs wouldn't get set out in the same places as much day after day. Is it a crazy idea to move it there? I think the timing is a critical issue. I think so because archery hunters need first dibs on the white oak drop. On that prime window. It is because of the handicap of archery equipment. Your longest shot is maximum 50 yards for an excellent archer. We traditionally give archers some time knowing that the limitations of the bow require great skill to get it done up close and with a stick and a string. It is a time when bears concentrate on those food sources. An archery hunter can ONLY kill a bear if it is within 40 or 50 yards range of the hunter. But hounds are advantageous because they can hunt invisible sign that HUMAN  hunters cannot detect...scent. An archer hunting good bear sign has a kill radius of maximum 50 yards. A dog hunter has an immeasurable kill radius because his dogs can range out for him and generally can reel him into the exact location of a treed or bayed bear.
> Although hound hunting is not easier when you factor in the time spent training dogs, feeding them, and the physical effort required to actually hunt with them, the hound hunter is operating with an extraordinary, INCREDIBLE advantage in terms to ending up with a bear within killing range. They are hunting with tools that can detect things archery hunters cannot. That kinda sounds like an unfair advantage.  If hounds can tree a bear a day, or two bears a day, think about how many archery hunters in this state could manage to get a shot opportunity on a bear on their own accord in a day? Very few because they are hunting within the limitations of archery equipment. The simple fact is that hound hunters don't NEED the most PRIME window of opportunity that archers need because their dogs can strike a track, try and tree the bear, and bring the hunter to them. An archer is confined to an incredibly TINY kill radius when still hunting. A still hunting archer can hunt a maximum 50 yard radius. Hounds can hunt a 500 yard radius.
> I don't see why dog hunters can't see that merely pushing the hunt back just a few weeks would end all of this fuss. Nobody is trying to get rid of this allotted hunt. NOBODY!!! I asked for a dog hunt at the 2016 regs meeting in Homer even though I didn't know a single bear/hound hunter. I thought it was fair for the hound hunters!!! Me, we, ALL OF US are simply asking for it to be 3 or 4 weeks later. Why can't you hound guys comprehend all of this? I was and am on your side!!! It is such an incredibly simple fix. Just a few weeks later.
> Heath has already informed myself and the majority of us here that we don't have valid opinions since the majority of us here aren't real hunters. I assume he never realized that I spend 7 days per week on Chattahoochee WMA. As such, I know my opinion doesn't count. He made that blatantly clear. I'm sure you'll show up with a well argued point Heath, but these are real considerations. Why not just answer them plainly instead of claiming nobody here but yourself is a bona fide hunter? Answer this question for all of us to witness here...is pushing the dog hunt date back 3 or 4 weeks a hysterical idea? If so, explain in detail why.
> TioHeysuss, you know me personally man. You know I am on the WMA every single day. You can see here that nobody is trying to take a houndsman's turn. We are simply asking for the hunt date to be a few weeks later. Is that an insane idea?


Spot on bro! Didn't think about cohutta but that would be a good hunt. Although I get why they are doing it, mainly to reduce numbers in that area specifically. I and many others are always open to a spring bow hunt but that opinion has been ignored long as I can remember I'm sure if we could get that going this conversation would change just like that. Kyle and Tio you both have made some very good points and we have had good conversation about bear hunting both of you have offered advice and watched me put my first bear down and become an addict to this way of life. Dont want to get off track with fine hunters like you, so I want you to understand the reasoning behind applying wasn't to shut these houndsmen out because the first thing I will do if I am selected is look to you guys to find out who's with me and who has the dog's. Without me applying, I wouldn't get an invite from the houndsmen I'm sure and my friend don't bear hunt so I got 8 empty spots to fill which is fine I'm sure I can find a few guys and dogs that wanna get this done so it's more about me getting the opportunity than keeping someone else from theirs, am I not so happy about the timing ? but not against the hunt or your way of life at all heck if one of you guys get it shoot me an invite.


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## Tio Hey Seuss

I'm absolutely in favor of a spring hunt dude. Maybe if we all jump on board and support that the next time they're taking public comments we could make everyone happy. It would reduce the population, provide more opportunity and since no other eastern state has a spring season I imagine it would generate a ton of revenue from out of state hunters.


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## RaCoHunter

Christian hughey said:


> Spot on bro! Didn't think about cohutta but that would be a good hunt. Although I get why they are doing it, mainly to reduce numbers in that area specifically. I and many others are always open to a spring bow hunt but that opinion has been ignored long as I can remember I'm sure if we could get that going this conversation would change just like that. Kyle and Tio you both have made some very good points and we have had good conversation about bear hunting both of you have offered advice and watched me put my first bear down and become an addict to this way of life. Dont want to get off track with fine hunters like you, so I want you to understand the reasoning behind applying wasn't to shut these houndsmen out because the first thing I will do if I am selected is look to you guys to find out who's with me and who has the dog's. Without me applying, I wouldn't get an invite from the houndsmen I'm sure and my friend don't bear hunt so I got 8 empty spots to fill which is fine I'm sure I can find a few guys and dogs that wanna get this done so it's more about me getting the opportunity than keeping someone else from theirs, am I not so happy about the timing ? but not against the hunt or your way of life at all heck if one of you guys get it shoot me an invite.



You’re not going to be able to just fill in with people if you’re drawn unless you add those people in on your quota application right now. You have to make a party and if a name isn’t associated with your party application then they can’t be hunting. I just called the DNR office and asked about this. They were very clear, if you aren’t a party leader that was drawn or a member of a party that got drawn then you are illegal. When I added my guys to our party I had to fill in their name, address, license number, etc


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## CornStalker

While I think there is a lot of good dialogue and questions on this thread, it's also concerning how quick we are to bite and devour one another as hunters---especially bear hunters. 

As Clay Newcomb (Bear Hunting Magazine) has said often, bear hunters are 'the gate keepers' in terms of protecting hunting rights/traditions in North America. I believe that whole-heartedly. Just look at New Jersey, California, British Columbia, and even just south of us in Florida to see how bear hunting (and hound hunting) has been very contentious. Bear hunting is the emotional low-hanging fruit for people set on ending ALL hunting. Just remember this when you address hunters that are different than you (whether the method, mode or species).

Full disclaimer, I've never hunted bears or deer with hounds, but I can appreciate the hard work, tradition, and impressive skill set of the houndsman and his dogs. It's a dying sport--probably for many reasons, but in part because it takes a lot of real estate to run dogs successfully. We just don't have the large parcels of land anymore. I hope that houndsmen will continue the tradition---it's good for all hunters. As a word of encouragement and caution to those that hunt bears with hounds: You're tiny, shrinking group---so make sure to invite children and new hunters to partake in this event. If you just save it for yourself, it's not going to be around much longer. And build bridges with other hunter groups whenever possible.

I do have concerns with the timing of the hunt occurring only several weeks into the archery season. I may be ignorant, but it doesn't seem like running dogs later in the season would detract from the success rates. That's just my assumption and have absolutely no proof. That being said, I'll quietly observe this season and see how it pans out. 

Let's have good discussions. Let's learn from each other and respect the different flavors of hunting. Maybe we can even start some sort annual gathering in North Georgia to have roundtable discussions on how to move forward as bear hunters (& conservationist) on public land. Throw in some food, good beverages, and some story-telling times for guys to share past hunts.....now we're getting some where. Maybe Backcountry Hunters and Anglers could host something in future that fits this description. Just thinking out loud. 

Best of luck to all my fellow hunters out there this season. Hunt some bears, share some experiences, pick up some trash. Be stewards of these gifts!


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## Christian hughey

RaCoHunter said:


> You’re not going to be able to just fill in with people if you’re drawn unless you add those people in on your quota application right now. You have to make a party and if a name isn’t associated with your party application then they can’t be hunting. I just called the DNR office and asked about this. They were very clear, if you aren’t a party leader that was drawn or a member of a party that got drawn then you are illegal. When I added my guys to our party I had to fill in their name, address, license number, etc


Good point. I assumed you could fill in once selected. I will check more into it myself I just applied as the party lead for time bein. If true I may cancel my app if I can't get it together by deadline.


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## Christian hughey

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> I'm absolutely in favor of a spring hunt dude. Maybe if we all jump on board and support that the next time they're taking public comments we could make everyone happy. It would reduce the population, provide more opportunity and since no other eastern state has a spring season I imagine it would generate a ton of revenue from out of state hunters.


As much as I would like to say it would do some good, I doubt it would. I have mentioned in multiple group meetings and talked to biologist and other reps. and the best answer I have gotten is too much conflict with hikers/campers that time of year and negative reproduction rates do to people killing mothers to early which is bull because your not supposed to shoot sows with cubs anyway and there are just as many people camping in the mountains spring or fall. I sent a long e mail to reps at the last meeting regarding this issue and more access or gates open during bow season and not so much as a reply saying my opinion was acknowleged. I am willing to get in on the next public opinion, I'm sure there are plenty here alone to be heard. Just them listening.


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## greg_n_clayton

RaCoHunter said:


> You’re not going to be able to just fill in with people if you’re drawn unless you add those people in on your quota application right now. You have to make a party and if a name isn’t associated with your party application then they can’t be hunting. I just called the DNR office and asked about this. They were very clear, if you aren’t a party leader that was drawn or a member of a party that got drawn then you are illegal. When I added my guys to our party I had to fill in their name, address, license number, etc


 This is 100% correct. Not many people know this. Everyone I talked to but 1 thought the party members can be added if they are selected, which is not the case !! I too called DNR, 3 different offices matter of fact !


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## Pig Predator

So can we be party leaders and be added to a party? Can you join multiple parties?


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## greg_n_clayton

Pig Predator said:


> So can we be party leaders and be added to a party? Can you join multiple parties?


Yes. That is what is happening over here. Everybody is adding everybody else. In other words, it gets you around 100 entries ! I know of a 3 yo that has a lifetime license  entering ! They (DNR) dropped the nall again by not putting more info in the book !


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## Panther25

A lot of folks have mentioned that one of the reasons for this hunt is to reduce bear numbers. Just to clarify, the game management package said "This change will have minimal impact on the north Georgia bear population, expands bear hunting opportunity and is responsive to public desires."
https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/d...A-1 Board Package for March Board Meeting.pdf  (p. A-25)


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## Pig Predator

greg_n_clayton said:


> Yes. That is what is happening over here. Everybody is adding everybody else. In other words, it gets you around 100 entries ! I know of a 3 yo that has a lifetime license  entering ! They (DNR) dropped the nall again by not putting more info in the book !


What if multiple entries gets thrown out? For example: If I'm a party leader and build a party and then join another party or two, Every application associated with my number get tossed? In other words, gets hundreds of entries thrown out and the only parties being drawn are the ones that only applied one time?


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## greg_n_clayton

Panther25 said:


> A lot of folks have mentioned that one of the reasons for this hunt is to reduce bear numbers. Just to clarify, the game management package said "This change will have minimal impact on the north Georgia bear population, expands bear hunting opportunity and is responsive to public desires."
> https://georgiawildlife.com/sites/d...A-1 Board Package for March Board Meeting.pdf  (p. A-25)


You are correct !! This hunt will not dent...not even a small one ...... in the numbers up here !! I didn't read your link. Just responding to you sir.


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## greg_n_clayton

Pig Predator said:


> What if multiple entries gets thrown out? For example: If I'm a party leader and build a party and then join another party or two, Every application associated with my number get tossed? In other words, gets hundreds of entries thrown out and the only parties being drawn are the ones that only applied one time?


Good question ! Call the the Northwest regional DNR office and ask for ofiicer Hammond. Or I will tomorrow.


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## JN86

JN86 said:


> One thing I noticed on the bear harvest data is that most of the bear are killed outside of the WMA's and private land and there is a bear dog training season from August-1 up to archery season.





greg_n_clayton said:


> Oook ! Not in Rabun County !


What I'm saying is that even after over a month of bear dog training on the outside there are still more Bear taken in archery season vs the WMA'S where they don't run dogs.


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## greg_n_clayton

Pig Predator said:


> What if multiple entries gets thrown out? For example: If I'm a party leader and build a party and then join another party or two, Every application associated with my number get tossed? In other words, gets hundreds of entries thrown out and the only parties being drawn are the ones that only applied one time?


I really can't see that happening though ! I could add you and not know anything about it ! They told me all I needed was your name and such. Not necessarily your DNR number.


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## greg_n_clayton

JN86 said:


> What I'm saying is that even after over a month of bear dog training on the outside there are still more Bear taken vs the WMA'S where they don't run dogs.


Yes sir.....most around here avoid the only WMA (Warwoman) like the plague  !! That WMA is nothing but a dot compared to the vast amount of public land outside of it ! We are blessed to say the least to have so much public lands ! But all this public land comes with a price !! Namely, land values and taxes ! If it wasn't for the Ga power lakes here with the taxes they generate from multi million $ homes around them, Rabun County would be one of the poorest counties in the great state of Georgia IMO !


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## Heath

JN86 said:


> What I'm saying is that even after over a month of bear dog training on the outside there are still more Bear taken in archery season vs the WMA'S where they don't run dogs.




Stop all this logical talk!!! They don’t want to hear that people still kill bears after a solid month of dog pressure.  They are gonna start calling you an expert too!  You’ve got to have all the woods to yourself and hunt exactly when acorns are perfect.  I love the internet.  Use to have to go to the feed store to hear people tell me how little I know,  now I can just log on at a bear tree and learn how easy it is to tree these suckers.  And now I can learn how and when is the best time for me to bow hunt a bear.  I’ll think about this and laugh as I let bear walk this fall so I can run them again come training season.  Some easy hunting this morning


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## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> If I was to complain about this hunt, my complaint would be in regards to the number of people each person can bring. 9 people and their dogs isn't bad on 25,000 but 90 people and their dogs...that seems excessive to me. I'm also concerned about how many dogs each "team" can use. If each dude has 4 or 5 that's not bad but if they each run a pack of 10 or more...that's a lot of dogs on that little chunk of land.



Don’t complain, Tio. It’s not your style. If I get drawn, you can go with my team. We will have 5-6 well trained and very experienced bear/hog dogs that belong to my uncle and cousin from NC. I’m getting older, and I may need help dragging.

I’m sure we will find some good spots for you to go back to bow hunt after the dog season closes. I might even go with you. I’ll bring my recurve.


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## Heath

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> If I was to complain about this hunt, my complaint would be in regards to the number of people each person can bring. 9 people and their dogs isn't bad on 25,000 but 90 people and their dogs...that seems excessive to me. I'm also concerned about how many dogs each "team" can use. If each dude has 4 or 5 that's not bad but if they each run a pack of 10 or more...that's a lot of dogs on that little chunk of land.



I’m with you 100% Tio Hey Seuss.  I’m all for a dog restriction of 6 or 4 and a party restriction of say 3-4.  That’s plenty to help drag and keeps things a lot more tidy.  3-4 parties at 3-4 hunters apiece would have been a better option for less chaos. 
You’re getting invites left and right now.  They even invite you along with someone else’s dogs.  They’ve even offered to show you places you can hunt later because they are the official gate keepers of Chattahoochee WMA.  Didn’t you need someone to hold your hand and catch your bear for you and show you the way?  These men are so selfless!  He’s already stated that his families dogs are far better than mine or I would offer you to hunt with me.  You’ll be better of with them.  Now, if you want to see bears after the dog hunts, I’m your man.  I’m apparently the only expert who can do that on this forum.  Let me whisper something to you “it’s not rocket science, you just hunt hard and you don’t have to blame others for your failures”!


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## Buckman18

Heath said:


> I’m with you 100% Tio Hey Seuss.  I’m all for a dog restriction of 6 or 4 and a party restriction of say 3-4.  That’s plenty to help drag and keeps things a lot more tidy.  3-4 parties at 3-4 hunters apiece would have been a better option for less chaos.
> You’re getting invites left and right now.  They even invite you along with someone else’s dogs.  They’ve even offered to show you places you can hunt later because they are the official gate keepers of Chattahoochee WMA.  Didn’t you need someone to hold your hand and catch your bear for you and show you the way?  These men are so selfless!  He’s already stated that his families dogs are far better than mine or I would offer you to hunt with me.  You’ll be better of with them.  Now, if you want to see bears after the dog hunts, I’m your man.  I’m apparently the only expert who can do that on this forum.  Let me whisper something to you “it’s not rocket science, you just hunt hard and you don’t have to blame others for your failures”!



I was going to invite you if I got drawn and you didn’t, but Tio saying I am precious moved him ahead of you on the friends list.


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## j_seph

I applied myself, 1) for the opportunity to experience this and 2) to help couple other groups out that also will be applying as to up their odds of getting their dogs on a bear.


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## Heath

Buckman18 said:


> I was going to invite you if I got drawn and you didn’t, but Tio saying I am precious moved him ahead of you on the friends list.



No need to apologize.  I wouldn’t take up a spot and rob someone of an opportunity like others feel is acceptable.  I can either get drawn or not.  I’m a big boy!


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## greg_n_clayton

Ok.....per Adam Hammond, Ga's bear biologist. Social Circle and Gainesville office are giving the wrong info. There needs to be a Administrator and a Asssist Administrator,  if you want. The other party members can be added at the check station before the hunt. After the party is created at the check station, it is a done deal. No adding anyone in a few days. Reason for a Assistant Administrator is so the the party can still hunt if one or the other is absent from the WMA. He also said thanks for letting him know what Social Circle and Gainesville are informing people calling and that a e-mail is going out to them immediately.


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> No need to apologize.  I wouldn’t take up a spot and rob someone of an opportunity like others feel is acceptable.  I can either get drawn or not.  I’m a big boy!


Finally he gets it, thats right you Either get it or you don't just like the rest of us. We are very proud of you for coming to that realization. No one is being robbed. No one is trying to take anything from you. We as hunters want the same crack at it. Please quit stirring the pot this issue has been beat to death. Look to this thread after the drawing and we may be able to put some good teams together.


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## tree cutter 08

17 pages! Time for a bear dog forum!


----------



## Heath

Christian hughey said:


> Finally he gets it, thats right you Either get it or you don't just like the rest of us. We are very proud of you for coming to that realization. No one is being robbed. No one is trying to take anything from you. We as hunters want the same crack at it. Please quit stirring the pot this issue has been beat to death. Look to this thread after the drawing and we may be able to put some good teams together.





Christian hughey said:


> Finally he gets it, thats right you Either get it or you don't just like the rest of us. We are very proud of you for coming to that realization. No one is being robbed. No one is trying to take anything from you. We as hunters want the same crack at it. Please quit stirring the pot this issue has been beat to death. Look to this thread after the drawing and we may be able to put some good teams together.



Would you feel the same if they made all hunts archery, gun, or dog?  If so we don’t have a disagreement.  My responses are aimed at those who have admittedly applied to keep hound hunters from being drawn.  Those are the true definition of liars which I have no use for!  Deep down inside, you don’t feel it’s a little crappy to take a chance from someone that has no other opportunity to use his desired method when you could hunt any other time with many weeks of opportunity?  You should apply for a handicap hunt and take some of their opportunities.  What would be the difference?


----------



## Christian hughey

Heath said:


> Would you feel the same if they made all hunts archery, gun, or dog?  If so we don’t have a disagreement.  My responses are aimed at those who have admittedly applied to keep hound hunters from being drawn.  Those are the true definition of liars which I have no use for!  Deep down inside, you don’t feel it’s a little crappy to take a chance from someone that has no other opportunity to use his desired method when you could hunt any other time with many weeks of opportunity?  You should apply for a handicap hunt and take some of their opportunities.  What would be the difference?


I respect your way and I am interested to learn. I would have no other way see how this is done and if I'm picked I'll be first to ask you if your dogs are ready to run, doesn't seem like I'm try in to take from you as much as help increase your odds. For the most part we have had about 9 guys weighing in on this who are all in my book pretty good hunters from past conversations. Looks like we got us a good bear dog group so I think if anything I increased our odds. I havnt noticed many with the intention of flat out trying to shutdown this hunt. I think many are more interested in seeing this for themselves the only other argument I have heard from these guys is the timing which is just an opinion and everybody agrees that ? hunting the first few weeks is the best time to be out there. It's a big change to these boys way of life. Eventually I think this will expand beyond these wmas, a little time will pass and people will get over it but for now nothing wrong with having an opinion. it's a shock for those of us who planned all year for these few weeks to get cut, very short notice. Is what it is. I will hopefully have mine down opening weekend anyway.


----------



## Tio Hey Seuss

Buckman18 said:


> I was going to invite you if I got drawn and you didn’t, but Tio saying I am precious moved him ahead of you on the friends list.


Dude I'm down to tag along if that's a serious invite. I can follow directions and carry meat and I'd like to see some good hounds in action. Life is too short to hold a grudge? I'd like to hunt with you too @Heath if you draw.


----------



## GeorgiaPlottHunter

greg_n_clayton said:


> Ok.....per Adam Hammond, Ga's bear biologist. Social Circle and Gainesville office are giving the wrong info. There needs to be a Administrator and a Asssist Administrator,  if you want. The other party members can be added at the check station before the hunt. After the party is created at the check station, it is a done deal. No adding anyone in a few days. Reason for a Assistant Administrator is so the the party can still hunt if one or the other is absent from the WMA. He also said thanks for letting him know what Social Circle and Gainesville are informing people calling and that a e-mail is going out to them immediately.


So does this give you multiple chances per party if you enter each member as a leader?


----------



## Buckman18

Tio Hey Seuss said:


> Dude I'm down to tag along if that's a serious invite. I can follow directions and carry meat and I'd like to see some good hounds in action. Life is too short to hold a grudge? I'd like to hunt with you too @Heath if you draw.



There’s no such thing as grudges in my world, I was just poking the bear. 

As long as I’ve got room after all in my usual rowdy crowd wants to go, I hope both of you will join in the (hopefully) action.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

GeorgiaPlottHunter said:


> So does this give you multiple chances per party if you enter each member as a leader?


Ya know. I was talking to Wesley this morning.  They called this guy, and he told them that the information he gave me yesterday wasn't correct either ! I don't think anybody with DNR knows what the rules are !! Only 2 leaders per application. That part is correct ! But only the applicant is eligible for the drawing. That is for sure ! The #2 has to create a seperate application to be eligible for the draw.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Good luck everbody !!


----------



## Pig Predator

It is now my understanding that you add your party every day or when you need to change members at the check in so as to be able to rotate dogs.


----------



## twincedargap

Man I'm so excited.  Almost forgot to put in for the quota.  Luckly the DNR phone app was great.  I submitted my quote app at 11pm last night.  woohoo! 

More training planned for this weekend.  If you see me and my dog.  Please approach cautiously.  Already one fellow forum member has been attacked about a month ago.  I think he was too traumatized to share the experience here.  I've posted the dogs photo so you can recognize us and give us berth if you see us in the hills this weekend!


----------



## humdandy

Are they drawing today?


----------



## greg_n_clayton

humdandy said:


> Are they drawing today?


They should. I keep checking my e-mail looking for the ......... sorry, you wasn't chosen ........ notice !


----------



## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> They should. I keep checking my e-mail looking for the ......... sorry, you wasn't chosen ........ notice !


Just found out I did not get selected me and the hound are very disappointed. Good luck to whoever gets it.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> Just found out I did not get selected me and the hound are very disappointed. Good luck to whoever gets it.


Yep.....got my unsuccessful notice too !!


----------



## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> Yep.....got my unsuccessful notice too !!


Dang not the first to say they were chosen and this hunt is not eligible for priority points. Sure seems funny!


----------



## greg_n_clayton

Christian hughey said:


> Dang not the first to say they were chosen and this hunt is not eligible for priority points. Sure seems funny!


Well..what was there....
18 total ??


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## Christian hughey

Along with the other 5 I knew that drawed for it and I'm sure the other guys on here had friends not get drawed as well. I'm not really being serious but I'm interested to see if anyone on the forum gets pulled.


----------



## greg_n_clayton

This is the first year I have ever applied for any quota hunt. I put in for a alligator one, and of course wasn't picked. I got question about the point thing. I understand you recieve 1 point when your not picked. Do you use that point next time for that particular species hunt, or can you use it in a different species hunt ?


----------



## Christian hughey

greg_n_clayton said:


> This is the first year I have ever applied for any quota hunt. I put in for a alligator one, and of course wasn't picked. I got question about the point thing. I understand you recieve 1 point when your not picked. Do you use that point next time for that particular species hunt, or can you use it in a different species hunt ?


That species only. I have different points for wma deer and state park deer and Turkey and it is hunt specific.


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## brownitisdown

Yep ever draw hunt in ga you get priority point why should this one be any different unless it rigged so them and there buddy will be the only one that get drawed


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## Coon Dog

Deer season is to long you have a lot more time to kill a bear than a short 9 day dog season most of you will never kill a bear because you do not no how to hunt the mountains and will always be unsmarted by the bear I think if people put in for a dog hunt and do not hunt with dogs or even show up with dogs they should be ban from ever being able to apply for any quote hunt in ga or picked  for the rest of there life then you guys would not apply and mess up the system


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## whitetailfreak

Coon Dog said:


> Deer season is to long you have a lot more time to kill a bear than a short 9 day dog season most of you will never kill a bear because you do not no how to hunt the mountains and will always be unsmarted by the bear I think if people put in for a dog hunt and do not hunt with dogs or even show up with dogs they should be ban from ever being able to apply for any quote hunt in ga or picked  for the rest of there life then you guys would not apply and mess up the system



Irony if I've ever seen it


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## greg_n_clayton

NGA44 said:


> All hail the mighty dog hunter! How can us bowhunters ever be the great white hunters all of y’all are? Please teach us!


I can !! I don't give a rat's rearend either way ! ! I do like working a dog though ! Only reason fot the hunt is they want to thin them out some ! They are everywhere here ! One was hit by a car yesterday right up the road ! Another was trying to get in a house about 5 miles away...according to the poolice scanner !! I don't like eatting something that smells worse than a pig anyways !!


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## Raylander

These tags were paid for long ago. That’s what dictated the timing. Outta staters.. What did y’all expect? $$ talks.. I think it shoulda been resident only..


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## Raylander

greg_n_clayton said:


> I can !! I don't give a rat's rearend either way ! ! I do like working a dog though ! Only reason fot the hunt is they want to thin them out some ! They are everywhere here ! One was hit by a car yesterday right up the road ! Another was trying to get in a house about 5 miles away...according to the poolice scanner !! I don't like eatting something that smells worse than a pig anyways !!



They won’t ‘thin them out’.. If houndsmen shot em all. They wouldn’t have anything to hunt. They want and need a growing bear population. Otherwise the opportunities go out the window..


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## tree cutter 08

worleyburd86 said:


> They won’t ‘thin them out’.. If houndsmen shot em all. They wouldn’t have anything to hunt. They want and need a growing bear population. Otherwise the opportunities go out the window..


Exact reason why we have the hog problem we have now. I ain't been impressed yet.


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## humdandy

Coon Dog said:


> Deer season is to long you have a lot more time to kill a bear than a short 9 day dog season most of you will never kill a bear because you do not no how to hunt the mountains and will always be unsmarted by the bear I think if people put in for a dog hunt and do not hunt with dogs or even show up with dogs they should be ban from ever being able to apply for any quote hunt in ga or picked  for the rest of there life then you guys would not apply and mess up the system



Puncuations are free.  Toss a few in from time to time.


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## strothershwacker

whitetailfreak said:


> Irony if I've ever seen it


??????


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## Dana Young

Maybe they will kill them all. it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all they aren't any good to eat anyway.


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## Buckman18

worleyburd86 said:


> These tags were paid for long ago. That’s what dictated the timing. Outta staters.. What did y’all expect? $$ talks.. I think it shoulda been resident only..



I can tell you that there were non residents selected. That is INSANE!!! There is no way a non resident should ever be picked over a resident.


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## Buckman18

Buckman18 said:


> Even though Bowers decided to screw me and my fellow bow hunters, I want to congratulate him for his new role with DNR, and I bought him a gift to help him be successful. Anyone know the address he’s at so I can ship it to him?
> 
> View attachment 978444



How’s Ol’ Bowers is liking his new role now? I’ve got something else to help him with a ‘Special Project’ that needs immediate attention.


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## Raylander

Buckman18 said:


> My sources tell me there are at least 5 non residents that were selected. 2 from TN, 2 from NC, and 1 from FL. That is INSANE!!! There is no way a non resident should ever be picked over a resident.



Especially since there are plenty of homeboys wantin to hunt..


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## Christian hughey

worleyburd86 said:


> These tags were paid for long ago. That’s what dictated the timing. Outta staters.. What did y’all expect? $$ talks.. I think it shoulda been resident only..


I have


Buckman18 said:


> I can tell you that there were non residents selected. That is INSANE!!! There is no way a non resident should ever be picked over a resident.


The idea that residents do not come first in this quota is wrong and they know it. I did find out that priority points are built for this hunt but still residents should definitely come first. Non resident tags in Georgia aren't nearly as much as other states, so the revenue wouldn't generate enough to make it worth ticking off all the hard working, TAX paying Georgians.


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## Pig Predator

I didn't get drawn either......no points given.


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## Raylander

Pig Predator said:


> I didn't get drawn either......no points given.



The no points is crap! There may come a day when bear tags are quota only etc. I want all the points!


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## 35 Whelen

worleyburd86 said:


> The no points is crap! There may come a day when bear tags are quota only etc. I want all the points!



I applied for points only and received a point.


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## Raylander

I’ll double check. But I don’t believe I did..


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## greg_n_clayton

Pig Predator said:


> I didn't get drawn either......no points given.


I got my point ! Did you get your e-mail and look in the right place ? I ccodn't care less about the hunt ! Like I done said, I enjoy the dogs working ! All rhe guys I know was gonna let a non dogger kill and have !! They are everywhere  !


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## greg_n_clayton

LOL...most of the guys I know raise finished bear dogs ! They train em and sale  a few !! Do not ask what a "finished" bear dog goes for !


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