# English/Llewellyn Setter vs. Brittany Spaniel



## Setter Jax (Dec 14, 2011)

That other thread was a lot of fun, so I thought I would throw this one out?  Let's see if anyone takes the bait.
You all know my vote.  Lol

SJ


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## wilber85 (Dec 14, 2011)

At least the last thread was comparable.  This one is just so lopsided I am not sure there is even room for debate...


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## Setter Jax (Dec 14, 2011)

*Setter all the Way*

Setters!!


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> At least the last thread was comparable.  This one is just so lopsided I am not sure there is even room for debate...



If you think your dog has it then quit messing with pen birds and come put your dog on some wild woodcock saturday morning at daylight.  It will all be on camera for everyone to see and judge for themselves.  You can sit at your internet cafe sipping your triple grande mocha soy latte talking on internet forums about which breed is best OR you could come hunt with us and let those boots get a taste of something other then two track and roadside planted quail....enough said


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2011)

Amen Nitram you calling out the shake and bake boys. I say put them in the real woods to and see what happens. If you get shown up, you just have to shake hands and let it be.


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## Supercracker (Dec 14, 2011)

Wish you guys were closer


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Setters!!



Looks like the shorthair didn't make it in time to those birds, imagine that ......  I like a little more room on my backs as well but to each his own.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> Wish you guys were closer



Woodies bird dog trial seems like a necessity at this point.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 14, 2011)

Sounds like a GON Woodcock Challenge,  Super Cracker, are you up for a road trip?

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Dec 14, 2011)

Beagle Stace said:


> Amen Nitram you calling out the shake and bake boys. I say put them in the real woods to and see what happens. If you get shown up, you just have to shake hands and let it be.



I want to see the Beagle bird hunt.

SJ


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Sounds like a GON Woodcock Challenge,  Super Cracker, are you up for a road trip?
> 
> SJ



I've made the trip to jax for the day to catch some waves, it's not that bad.  Leave at 4 am , surf at 9 am get out of the water by 5pm and back to Atl by 10pm.    Of course I was about 5 years younger then, you know 22...


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## Supercracker (Dec 14, 2011)

I would be. Not sure if Jaeger bomb would be the best representative of the breed though.  lol


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## Setter Jax (Dec 14, 2011)

SC,

I think Jaeger would do all right, he is still a pup and the experience would be good for him. I would just take Brigit, she can go all day.  I have only had her on wild birds a couple of times this year.  She has never hunted timberdoodles but I think she would do all right.  I’m up for it, what's your work schedule SC??

SJ


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## wilber85 (Dec 14, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> If you think your dog has it then quit messing with pen birds and come put your dog on some wild woodcock saturday morning at daylight.  It will all be on camera for everyone to see and judge for themselves.  You can sit at your internet cafe sipping your triple grande mocha soy latte talking on internet forums about which breed is best OR you could come hunt with us and let those boots get a taste of something other then two track and roadside planted quail....enough said



I dont think we got internet cafes in Milton lol.  

I already told you I am more than willing.  Forgive me for not putting it at the top of my priority list.  Its just that every other time we go to the "real woods" (whatever that means) we dont find jack.  I am not going to go over my reasons for hunting shake and bake birds...I made that clear in Julia's thread.  I'll be out there this Saturday with Mark and his shorthair.  Not sure what my plans are yet as far as what we will be doing.  We will be after wild birds but maybe not in the same place you are going.  If I head over there I will call you.  Couldnt care less about woodcock though.

Now...lets get back to the OP! I found a beautiful picture of a brittany on point that almost changed my mind about them....


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## HOWCO (Dec 14, 2011)

*Britt*

Britts


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

Wild bird, Kansas, 10 degrees outside, wind chill below zero.


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## Jim P (Dec 14, 2011)

I'd like to go just to watch and take pictures


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

A woodies meetup/hunt is definitely in order, we could pick a WMA that's known for birds but that maybe no one on the board hunts and spread out and see what we find.  Could be a chance for all of us to find some new birds.  I'd hate for it to be my backyard WMA though, I can't give up all my honeyholes...  Of course we could never post anything about where this secret hunt took place ever again or else the internet masses would be there the next day...:nono:

Any ideas?


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## rapid fire (Dec 14, 2011)

I'll throw a setter in the mix, although I don't know if i'll ever own another one.  She's a great little hunter, but a pain in the rear too.  I've never seen a dog with so much energy.  I let her in from time to time and the only time she'll lay down is when our cat whips her and she lays in the corner scared to move.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

rapid fire said:


> I'll throw a setter in the mix, although I don't know if i'll ever own another one.  She's a great little hunter, but a pain in the rear too.  I've never seen a dog with so much energy.  I let her in from time to time and the only time she'll lay down is when our cat whips her and she lays in the corner scared to move.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 14, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> I dont think we got internet cafes in Milton lol.
> 
> I already told you I am more than willing.  Forgive me for not putting it at the top of my priority list.  Its just that every other time we go to the "real woods" (whatever that means) we dont find jack.  I am not going to go over my reasons for hunting shake and bake birds...I made that clear in Julia's thread.  I'll be out there this Saturday with Mark and his shorthair.  Not sure what my plans are yet as far as what we will be doing.  We will be after wild birds but maybe not in the same place you are going.  If I head over there I will call you.  Couldnt care less about woodcock though.
> 
> Now...lets get back to the OP! I found a beautiful picture of a brittany on point that almost changed my mind about them....



i believe that last time we took a walk through "the real woods" we had already pointed a wild covey and two of the singles by the time you showed up frankey!

You can't get there at 10:30 and walk for 30 minutes and complain about the lack of results...

and i thought all shorthair owners loved woodcock hunting.  only bird that will stand that pressure from 2 steps away


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 14, 2011)

with that being said...my two english dogs didnt find anything in a quick hour long hunt this morning

beautiful sunrise though...it beat sleeping in or kicking up shake and bakes.


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2011)

SJ, You are more than welcome to see the beagle or my brit hunt anytime you want to. Never turned down an invite nor not extended one.


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 14, 2011)

The bird beagle will fetch em up when no one else will!


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## Sam H (Dec 14, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> If you think your dog has it then quit messing with pen birds and come put your dog on some wild woodcock saturday morning at daylight.  It will all be on camera for everyone to see and judge for themselves.  You can sit at your internet cafe sipping your triple grande mocha soy latte talking on internet forums about which breed is best OR you could come hunt with us and let those boots get a taste of something other then two track and roadside planted quail....enough said




Dang Nitram....Go getem Son....Lets call a spade a spade...and a wanna be a wanna be....I like your attitude...."I ain't never killed a bird from my den!"


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 14, 2011)

That Nitram Frenchie guy is one determined bird hunter for sure. He may be the real deal we all inspire to be. Seen him in action and he gets after it. Have not heard of him being in any coffee shops just talking about hunting and flapping gums. He just don't look like the guy that would fit in on those fancy plantations.


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## Sam H (Dec 14, 2011)

wilber85 said:


> At least the last thread was comparable.  This one is just so lopsided I am not sure there is even room for debate...



You're right wilber....Those setters ain't got a prayer against the Britts...well...maybe a prayer


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## Setter Jax (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks Beagle Stance for the invite.  I've never hunted Timberdoodles and would like to go sometime. My father had a couple of Basset hounds that he used to take along for rabbits and retrieves and they worked well with his setters, so I could see how it could work. 

Now back to the topic at hand.  I have two nice started Setters, they aren't finished yet by any means, but are works in progress but can hunt and find birds. 18 month old pup and it's her second season.  Picked up a 5 year old Setter Rescue that was hunted his first two years and then left in the back yard for three seasons, so they are at about the same learning level, but they get better each time out. 

Now I've extended an invite out several times, scheduled hunts, had the weekend trips all lined up with a fellow hunter with two Brit pups about the same age and experience to see how they would match up against my Setter pups, and it keeps getting cancelled. Now I think that match would be pretty fair, about the same age and training. Now I’m starting to think that this said hunter is running a little scared.  Any of you guys know a feller like that with two young Britt pups?????? 

Not talking about you Jim,  your little Abbey is doing great, and you are where I was last year with a 10 month old baby pup.  It's Abbey's first season and she is doing good.



SJ


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 15, 2011)

Beagle Stace said:


> That Nitram Frenchie guy is one determined bird hunter for sure. He may be the real deal we all inspire to be. Seen him in action and he gets after it. Have not heard of him being in any coffee shops just talking about hunting and flapping gums. He just don't look like the guy that would fit in on those fancy plantations.



  You are right about that!


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## Setter Jax (Dec 15, 2011)

Sam H said:


> Dang Nitram....Go getem Son....Lets call a spade a spade...and a wanna be a wanna be....I like your attitude...."I ain't never killed a bird from my den!"



Sounds like big talk on the keyboard from his den. 

Not sure if those are his pics or not,  looks like he cut and pasted one of my pics from last year.


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## ronnem (Dec 15, 2011)

*bird beagle*



Beagle Stace said:


> SJ, You are more than welcome to see the beagle or my brit hunt anytime you want to. Never turned down an invite nor not extended one.



That bird beagle will smoke any pointer.   She'll find every bird those pointers run right by, and you'll never lose a downed bird, I think that little girl has 4 times the nose of any pointer I've seen.  Her name is "Star" for a reason, more like "Super Star bird beagle".  LOL

Stace, I'll be thinking about you chasing grouse this weekend.  I could use that little bird beagle the last week of season up here.
Ron


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## Supercracker (Dec 15, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> She has never hunted timberdoodles but I think she would do all right.  I’m up for it, what's your work schedule SC??
> 
> SJ



I can work out  a day or two most any time. The only times I could'nt get away would be the obvious ones. Christmas day, New Year, etc. 

Let's do this match up!  even if Jaeger doesn't out sniff the other dogs he can always knock down brush for us......or we can use his big butt to block out the sun to provide shade. lol   

Let me know when. There should be a centrally located WMA that has some birds on it we can all go to that's not too far away. 

Maybe camp overnight there and hunt again the next day? (Just to make the drive more worth it.)


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## Supercracker (Dec 15, 2011)

What kind  of handicap can I get spotted for shooting a muzzleloader?







Beagle Stace said:


> He just don't look like the guy that would fit in on those fancy plantations.





That's true of more than one person around here!!!!

lol


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 15, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> What kind  of handicap can I get spotted for shooting a muzzleloader?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would be interested in trying something in South GA if it ever cools down enough.  Could probably get away for a weekend in January.  Maybe the 6th to the 8th or 20th to 22nd?


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## BirdNut (Dec 15, 2011)

Like people, there some good ones and some bad ones in every breed...just seems like there's more good in some than in others.

However, in this one, I gotta go with the Britt, if only due to more experience with them than setters.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 15, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> Let's do this match up!  even if Jaeger doesn't out sniff the other dogs he can always knock down brush for us......or we can use his big butt to block out the sun to provide shade. lol
> 
> (Just to make the drive more worth it.)



Sounds good to me.  Another good thing about hunting with Jaeger is if you get tired you could always ride him back to the truck.  He is as big as a small pony.  Lol

SJ


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## Supercracker (Dec 15, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Sounds good to me.  Another good thing about hunting with Jaeger is if you get tired you could always ride him back to the truck.  He is as big as a small pony.  Lol
> 
> SJ



Oh yeah, we'll ride Jaeger, you mean the dog who INSISTED on riding back to the truck after the hunt in the golf cart the other day?  He's a regular Olympic athlete. lol


Jan sounds good. Can't do 20-22. Have a hog hunting bird chasing running over dogs with airboats chucking spears at pigs rednecking trip planned the following week. So I couldn't pull that much time away. 

6-8 would work great though.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 15, 2011)

BirdNut said:


> Like people, there some good ones and some bad ones in every breed...just seems like there's more good in some than in others.
> 
> However, in this one, I gotta go with the Britt, if only due to more experience with them than setters.



Birdnut,

I could say the same thing about Britts.  The ones I have been around are either fantastic or bootlickers, I haven't seen too many that are just average or in between.  I've seen some Setters that were great and some that were just so so, but at least you get the whole spectrum of a hunting ability. I know I’m painting with a large brush, but I'm only basing my opinion on limited observation.  English Setter are more popular up North. At least you have a better chance of getting a good hunting dog if you get a Setter that is FDSB registered instead of AKC. With AKC you have to many show dog bloodlines and not hunting stock. You have to be real careful picking out a pup.


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## StevePickard (Dec 15, 2011)

SJ
Talk is cheap! Any time you want to go up against Bullet in my briar patches, just let me know! Not all wild birds, but my habitat and early release birds are the next best thing to wild we have in my part of the country.  I'll put him up against anything out there and if your dog can beat him, I'll definitely shake your hand and say you have a better dog. I'm not talking about field trial work...just plain ole who can last the longest and lock up on the most birds.  Now I don't have anything against Setters as one of my best friends has one that is the best retriever I've ever seen...even better than his Chessie, and he's a fine quail dog at that, but Bullet keeps on going when his setter has run out of gas...literally and on numerous occasions. The setter is from a great line...the Grouse Ridge line. 
 Bullets has his faults, but lack of drive and stamina is not one of them. Also I've seen where you've put down Brittanys due to their small size...he's no little dog...50 pounds of all muscle and all his pup have turned out big like him. Sam H can vouch for that!
If you want to talk bloodline, well I'll have to throw in my new pup, Shadow, the future mother of Bullet's pups.  Her grandfather, Shambo's Dark Shadow, has more field trial wins than any Brittany in history, and she has 6 Brittany Hall of Famers in her immediate bloodline, and her mother and father are both Dual Champions...Field and Show.  Now I can't brag on her as much as she's not been on quail but twice this fall and she's only 14 months old, but she definitely got the drive and stamina that I look for and shows a heck of a lot of potential. Oh yea...she's FDSB and AKC registered.
Bring the setters on!
Steve


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Mr. Steve, 

Sounds good to me, I'm always up for a hunt, however my best Setter is only 18 months old, so running her against Bullet would be like putting and All American High School Quarter Back up against Tom Brady from the Patriots.  She doesn't have the experience or training level as Bullet, i.e. AKC Master Hunter Quals.  They don't run yearling against three year olds at the Kentucky Derby either. Nor do I have the dog training experience as you do either.  Sam calls you the Brittany Spaniel Whisper. Lol  And I never said anything about Brits not being able to run big.  I just said the ones I have hunted with were either outstanding or not. My pup has 2 HOF and 4 Field Trials champions, she is line breed out of Tomoka and Tekoa Mountain Sunrise lines.

As far as stamina, I would put Brigit up against Bullet and I think she could stay up with him.  I guide occasionally for a couple of plantation when they have big corporate hunts and they usually run six English Pointer (2 guides) and do three sets of 50 birds.  They swap out fresh dogs with each set.  I will pick up a Pointer and run the EP with Brigit and she can go all three sets and keep up with the race horses and that's switching out fresh dogs on each set.  Now she is not as good on the last set, but she stays right up there with the Thorough Breds. lol 

Now the challenge was more towards Mr. Sam.  Bella is about the same age and has about the same experience (and is Sired by Bullet I think or is that Colt).  So I think a more fair assessment would be for me to run Brigit, Sam to run Bella and Colt and for you to run Shadow and we can see how they match up.

Now since it's three against one, I think I should be able to pick home field advantage.  Let's have this contest at 
SSJ Farms.  You will like Sharon and Stuart they have Brittany Spaniels too and are great folks and run a nice farm. Lol  We can run two course "B" and  "C" and take notes afterwards.  I can get Jim P to judge, he is a Britt guy too.  Lol

http://ssjfarm.com/

SJ


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

and the stage is set....


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

StevePickard said:


> SJ
> Talk is cheap! Any time you want to go up against Bullet in my briar patches, just let me know! Not all wild birds, but my habitat and early release birds are the next best thing to wild we have in my part of the country.  I'll put him up against anything out there and if your dog can beat him, I'll definitely shake your hand and say you have a better dog. I'm not talking about field trial work...just plain ole who can last the longest and lock up on the most birds.  Now I don't have anything against Setters as one of my best friends has one that is the best retriever I've ever seen...even better than his Chessie, and he's a fine quail dog at that, but Bullet keeps on going when his setter has run out of gas...literally and on numerous occasions. The setter is from a great line...the Grouse Ridge line.
> Bullets has his faults, but lack of drive and stamina is not one of them. Also I've seen where you've put down Brittanys due to their small size...he's no little dog...50 pounds of all muscle and all his pup have turned out big like him. Sam H can vouch for that!
> If you want to talk bloodline, well I'll have to throw in my new pup, Shadow, the future mother of Bullet's pups.  Her grandfather, Shambo's Dark Shadow, has more field trial wins than any Brittany in history, and she has 6 Brittany Hall of Famers in her immediate bloodline, and her mother and father are both Dual Champions...Field and Show.  Now I can't brag on her as much as she's not been on quail but twice this fall and she's only 14 months old, but she definitely got the drive and stamina that I look for and shows a heck of a lot of potential. Oh yea...she's FDSB and AKC registered.
> ...



wait...your dogs are named "Bullet" and "Ammo"?


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## maker4life (Dec 16, 2011)

Is it going to be shoot and retrieve ? How's the scoring going to go and is there a set time ? I've got one of those timid , boot licking german dogs that's just begging to get embarrassed .


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 16, 2011)

Wingmaster870 said:


> wait...your dogs are named "Bullet" and "Ammo"?



You looking for a challenge too???


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> You looking for a challenge too???



yea i want to enter my new dog...named him Cartridge


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Now, the rest of you guys could show up and put the GSP and English challenge to rest to. It's close to the Fl and GA line.  lol

SJ


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 16, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Now, the rest of you guys could show up and put the GSP and English challenge to rest to. It's close to the Fl and GA line.  lol
> 
> SJ



Not driving down 5 hours to pay for put out birds.  But, I would drive down to hunt some wild birds on a WMA.


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## Supercracker (Dec 16, 2011)

Nitram4891 said:


> Not driving down 5 hours to pay for put out birds.  But, I would drive down to hunt some wild birds on a WMA.



It'll be very very very very heavy on the HUNT part and very very very very very light on the BIRD part.

That said. I'd be game to meet up and run around the woods. I know some places that look to have decent habitat but I have not explored them. However, my experience is that there will be precious few, if any quail.


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## Supercracker (Dec 16, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Now, the rest of you guys could show up and put the GSP and English challenge to rest to. It's close to the Fl and GA line.  lol
> 
> SJ



I'll come take pics


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> It'll be very very very very heavy on the HUNT part and very very very very very light on the BIRD part.
> 
> That said. I'd be game to meet up and run around the woods. I know some places that look to have decent habitat but I have not explored them. However, my experience is that there will be precious few, if any quail.



wouldnt have it any other way...


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Supercracker said:


> It'll be very very very very heavy on the HUNT part and very very very very very light on the BIRD part.
> 
> That said. I'd be game to meet up and run around the woods. I know some places that look to have decent habitat but I have not explored them. However, my experience is that there will be precious few, if any quail.



Soooooooooo, Super Cracker, you've been holding out on me!!!!!!  I see how  you GSP guys are.  lol  :nono:  

SJ


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 16, 2011)

SJ Explain to me what a set is when you talk shake and bake put out birds? All I know is that I take my brit and run him all day long on the wild bird hunts I go on and often for 5 days in a row. Often does 10 to 15 miles daily. And he seems to hold up well. Is a set anything close to that? I am guessing not. Maybe I expect too much out of my brit. I am guessing three sets would not even get his heart rate up to an acceptable level to consider it a significant cardio exercise event. 

Sounds like Steve also has a few brits would good horsepower under the hood. You obvisiously have seen a poor representation of the brits' true ability.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

Beagle Stace said:


> SJ Explain to me what a set is when you talk shake and bake put out birds? All I know is that I take my brit and run him all day long on the wild bird hunts I go on and often for 5 days in a row. Often does 10 to 15 miles daily. And he seems to hold up well. Is a set anything close to that? I am guessing not. Maybe I expect too much out of my brit. I am guessing three sets would not even get his heart rate up to an acceptable level to consider it a significant cardio exercise event.
> 
> Sounds like Steve also has a few brits would good horsepower under the hood. You obvisiously have seen a poor representation of the brits' true ability.



10-15 miles is a half day hunt?


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## Supercracker (Dec 16, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> Soooooooooo, Super Cracker, you've been holding out on me!!!!!!  I see how  you GSP guys are.  lol  :nono:
> 
> SJ



No, it's where we were talking about. lol

Not where we were going Sunday but the other place.


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 16, 2011)

Well 10 to 15 is easily done so I really think I have enough under the hood to push a little further and snap a few more necks back if needed. Has been an interesting thread though. Saw a few more woodcock while running the little guys on some rabbits this morning. Going to look for those wild quail again tomorrow. Good luck to all on this pre Christmas weekend.


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## ronnem (Dec 16, 2011)

*Saturday*



Beagle Stace said:


> Well 10 to 15 is easily done so I really think I have enough under the hood to push a little further and snap a few more necks back if needed. Has been an interesting thread though. Saw a few more woodcock while running the little guys on some rabbits this morning. Going to look for those wild quail again tomorrow. Good luck to all on this pre Christmas weekend.



Stace,
Back and to the left.
Ronnie


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 16, 2011)

Beagle Stace said:


> Well 10 to 15 is easily done so I really think I have enough under the hood to push a little further and snap a few more necks back if needed. Has been an interesting thread though. Saw a few more woodcock while running the little guys on some rabbits this morning. Going to look for those wild quail again tomorrow. Good luck to all on this pre Christmas weekend.



Thanks you too!   Good luck.  I'll be chasing those boggsuckers in the morning.


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

Beagle Stace said:


> Well 10 to 15 is easily done so I really think I have enough under the hood to push a little further and snap a few more necks back if needed. Has been an interesting thread though. Saw a few more woodcock while running the little guys on some rabbits this morning. Going to look for those wild quail again tomorrow. Good luck to all on this pre Christmas weekend.



i would say your dog would easily do 20 in a half day hunt


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Mr. Beagle Stance,

I try and hunt as much as I can whenever I can. I don't mind if it's shake and bake, wild birds or sometimes just running the dogs.  I have a freezer full of wild and pen birds.  In fact I have so many I'm starting to give them away to co-workers, friends and neighbors.  I just love to see the dogs work and try to get them to the next level.  Not sure what I'm doing all the time.  Seems like I learn more from the pups then I’m teaching them.  Lol

To me it doesn't matter if you are a shake and bake, wild bird hunter or a combination of both.  It's all good and we are all brethren of the same love of upland.

Most plantation do 1/2 and full day hunts, some offer special corporate packages that include trap, two three hour hunts in the morning, lunch and then a final set of birds.  On three sets you are looking at running the dogs for a good 9 hours over 500 acres. Not sure the mileage, I can put my jogging gismo on her next time I guide and see.  I’m curious now as to how many miles she runs on an average hunt.

Good hunting to all this weekend.  Super Cracker and I are going to try are luck at a MWA for some timberdoodles, snipe, quail if we are lucky and maybe a couple of woods rabbits. 

SJ


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## Nitram4891 (Dec 16, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> To me it doesn't matter if you are a shake and bake, wild bird hunter or a combination of both.  It's all good and we are all brethren of the same love of upland.



  Good luck to all this weekend!


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## Beagle Stace (Dec 16, 2011)

SJ, I agree we beat each other up too much on here sometimes. Like you said what is really important is that we do share a common love for our dogs and our sport. We need to promote it in a healthy manner so hopefully we can pass it down. As for the mileage thing, it is good gee whiz info. to observe sometimes.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Beagle Stace,

Good luck and good hunting.  I still would like to hunt with you sometime and see that Beagle work.  lol

SJ


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## StevePickard (Dec 16, 2011)

SJ-
I don't want to mislead you...Bullet does not have an AKC Master Hunter title.  He just has the Junior title.  One of his faults is that he doesn't like to back and that is a requirement.  He has everything else down...steady to wing and shot, stop to a wild flushed bird, retrieve, etc. I have confidence in him with everything but backing, so that's what we're working on this season...no need to pay the fee if he won't back.
Also I'm no master trainer...I just love working with my dogs and I only train my dogs or Bullet's pups and they respond well to me.

I heard thru the grapevine that your Setters are 3 and 7 years old....you not trying to pull a fast one on me are you?  I understand you not wanting to put a pup against Bullet but if they are 3 and 7, lets give them a shot.  I'll even handicap things and put them up against Ammo, but retrieving is not in the game with him...haven't finished FF him yet so he's not ready for retrieving competition.  Shadow's 14 months old and only been on birds twice but I'll go out on a limb and put her in the mix also.  No retrieving for her either though.

Here's a quote from a post you made on another thread:

"I think the Britt is over rated. I have two setters and two Boykin's. I have hunted with lots of guys with different kinds of hunting dogs and haven't been impressed with the performance of any Britt I have hunted with. For a veritable dog I think I would go with a GSP first and a Boykin Spaniel as my second choice. If you have a big yard I would go with the GSP if you have a smaller yard or apartment I would go with the Boykin. Just my opinion. The Brit hunts all right, just not impressed with the drive or overall performance."

I know of a lot of good Brittanys out there that can compete with any breed.  I'm sure you know that Noland's Last Bullet, my Bullet's greatgrandfather has more wins in NASTRA than any dog of ANY breed...so I don't understand how you can put down the breed like you do. Or maybe you just like to get fellas like me stirred up.  Whether we compete or just watch dogs run, I'd love for you to have a chance sometime to see Bullet hunt.  Maybe he'd help change your mind on how you feel about Brittanys.  No brag just fact...his drive and desire to hunt are Bullet's best traits and I've worked with a bunch of his pups and they all have shown the same traits.

I've been working hard developing my line of Brittanys and improving the breed. So naturally when someone talks down Brittanys, I come to their defense.

Someone asked are my dogs named Bullet and Ammo(Bullet's son)...yes that's it...my son came up with the name Ammo...thought it was pretty good.  When I keep a pup from Bullet and Shadow in the future...I think I'll name him Shadow's Reloaded Bullet--RELOAD for the call name. 

Steve


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## Wingmaster870 (Dec 16, 2011)

the ole "Buddy" reference...we were all waiting on it!:trampoline::trampoline::trampoline:

its never a good brittany defense thread without a little 5th generation name dropping!


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## StevePickard (Dec 16, 2011)

Gotta have some of the best in there somewhere, and Buddy was one of the best...but not 5th generation back in Bullet...3rd generation(if my counting is right..mother1gen, grandfather 2gen, Buddy greatgrandfather 3gen)...Also got Tejas Iron Mike on his sire's side..2nd generation.. he was 4X American FC and FC/AFC RU-National All-Age Champion, and Winner of the U.S. Open Brittany Championship for 2003, and 2005.  He ran against Shambo's Dark Shadow both of those years and beat him, but died at the age of 5.  Shambo went on to get the most 1 hr. wins of any Brittany so far and at last account is still alive at 14 yrs. old. 
Heck yea I drop names and not ashamed to do so!  I searched all over the country to get top bloodlines. They don't guarantee anything, but it helps to have the deck stacked!
Steve


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## Setter Jax (Dec 16, 2011)

Steve,
My pup is only 18 months old and in my opinion a better hunter with more stamina. My other Setter is 5 and will be 6 in January.  I just picked him up last September.  He was sort of a rescue.  Ms. Julia found him for me and he is a good gundog, but I don’t think he has it in him to be a great gundog, just a pretty good one.  He is a pleasure to hunt behind and has a great personality; he is a medium ranging dog.  His owner was retired and had to down size his life.  He recently lost his wife and is moving into a neighborhood with his daughter and he could only bring 2 dogs.  He had four Setters.  He was hunted his first 2 years and then was left in the back yard.  He has been to a trainer when he was a pup and ran a couple of field trials and I think he placed.  I was hesitant about picking him up due to his age, but I liked his pedigree.  He is line breed with Mr. Thor (HOF) and has a couple of field trial champions in his blood lines and I picked him up as a mate for Brigit.  Don’t know a lot about breeding gundogs, but I figured with 3 HOF and 5 Field trial champions between the two of them from different lines, it should produce a good pup.   He started out this season pretty good and I have been having issues with whoa and backing.  He does better with a smaller group of dogs.  3 or more and it seems like he gets competitive with the other dogs. Both dogs will have to learn FF this summer.  I’m taking your advice and just hunting them this season.  Biscuit is a good gundog, but the pup has more potential, that is if I don’t mess her up.  Lol   I hunted her at 4 months old and she did great and she is coming along good on her second season.   
Steve, I think there are good gundogs in all breeds of pointers.  I’ve owned several different breeds.  It just boils down to personal preference.  Personally I don’t care if anyone’s dog is better then mine as long as I’m happy with my dogs and they do what I want, that’s good enough for me.  Mine find birds, point them, and sometimes bring them half way back to me.  Lol   But like you stated your pups have impeccable pedigrees, same as mine and I think that is half the battle.  Every book I ever read stated that good bloodline and hunting stock is 30% of having a good gundog.  The rest is up to training.  
Not to change the subject, But where is Mr. Sam H on this conversation.  Mr. Jim P has been awful quite too.  lol
SJ


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## Jim P (Dec 16, 2011)

I've been right here reading all the comments, everyone knows where I stand on bird dogs, but really and truely I like all breeds and Sj your 2 little setters are good dogs (I've seen them work together, but I'm from the old school of bird hunters that don't bash other bird hunters or there dog's, the way I see it is if my dogs satisfies me I could give a hoot what someone thinks. I have old friends that hunted with me in the old days that had different breeds then me, even had one buddy that his dog would eat the bird, ( I won't say his name but his initials are Joe lol) ,sure I was upset, but didn't bash him or his dog, we worked together and staightened him out. So now you know why I haven't put my 2 cents in. I'm getting to old to give a crap and just want to hunt birds until the boss upstairs put's me in the big bird field. My little britt is young, but if and when she is older and trained better hopefully I could brag on her a little, but I won't do it on someone elses account.


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## StevePickard (Dec 16, 2011)

SJ,
We're on the same page with the bloodlines..sounds like your rescue could make some great puppies.  IMO when it comes to selling pups, you need all the help you can get and bloodline sure makes for a better sales pitch over just a pup without a strong pedigree.  Again, I'm with you on personal preference...Brittanys just seem to fit my style. I'm a foot hunter not a horseback hunter and luckily I've never had a bad one...but that's my good fortune...and probably why I'm partial to the breed.  ANY dog that hunts like his Master wants him to and pleases his Master is a great dog in my book, regardless of breed. I love a well trained dog that has a desire to hunt of any breed!
 I decided to go with Hunt Test instead of the field trial route with Bullet because it really didn't mean a hill of beans to me as far as the competition goes...if I'm impressed that's the main thing! The Hunt Test gave me a set of standard to work towards that leads to a finished dog and I like that. 
  Since you were coming down pretty hard on Brittanys, I finally had to step up and defend them....I refrained from commenting on the post I quoted you on when it went up, just to keep from starting something, but when this one came up I had to do a little defending. Also if I didn't truly think Bullet could impress you, I'd have never made a challenge....and impressing you and showing you that there are good hard hunting Brittanys out there was my point...I was not trying to say that my dog was better than someone else's dog....but I felt pushed a little too far with the Brittany bashing.  I'm sure there are many other Brittanys out there that are just as good or better than Bullet...he's just the only one I've got to try to impress you with....not to mention I'm so proud of him, I can hardly stand it. He hard headed as heck and has his faults but I would have him any other way! What's important is how the owner feels about HIS dog.
Steve


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## ROAM (Dec 17, 2011)

Jim P said:


> I've been right here reading all the comments, everyone knows where I stand on bird dogs, but really and truely I like all breeds and Sj your 2 little setters are good dogs (I've seen them work together, but I'm from the old school of bird hunters that don't bash other bird hunters or there dog's, the way I see it is if my dogs satisfies me I could give a hoot what someone thinks. I have old friends that hunted with me in the old days that had different breeds then me, even had one buddy that his dog would eat the bird, ( I won't say his name but his initials are Joe lol) ,sure I was upset, but didn't bash him or his dog, we worked together and staightened him out. So now you know why I haven't put my 2 cents in. I'm getting to old to give a crap and just want to hunt birds until the boss upstairs put's me in the big bird field. My little britt is young, but if and when she is older and trained better hopefully I could brag on her a little, but I won't do it on someone elses account.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

Steve,

Just for the record, that thread was talking about versatile hunting dogs and I stand behind my recommendation.  I wouldn’t recommend a Setter or an English Pointer either for a versatile hunting dog.  If you want a dog that you can go duck hunting, dove, turkey, squirrel and blood track, a dog that can do it all; I still would recommend a GSP, GWP or a Boykin Spaniel.  But that’s my opinion.  I don’t like Ford trucks either, the ones that I have owned started breaking down at 70 K miles and cost me a bloody fortune to maintain, but that doesn’t make me a bad guy either.  It’s just my preference in trucks. I base my opinions on personal experience and through observations.  I don’t feel like I have anything to apologize about it.  Civilians are thin skinned and touchy feely about things. Say what you mean and mean what you say.  It’s all good and everyone is entitled to have an opinion about a subject or topic.  Doesn’t mean that I’m right or your wrong and it doesn’t mean we can’t go out and shoot some birds, work the dogs  and have a beer together.  Hunters should be able to say how they feel and not have to think about being sensitive.  I’m so tired of that in today’s politically correct environment. Prove your dog on the field. If your dog makes you happy, it really doesn’t matter what I think or other people think anyway………..

For a versatile dog I think I would go with a GSP first and a Boykin Spaniel as my second choice.” Quote

SJ


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## Jetjockey (Dec 17, 2011)

Hey... I wanna play!  Ive got a little tiny brit that likes to run around and chase bugs.  She's only 32lbs though, so Im SURE she doesn't have the stamina to keep up with all your big dogs.  And she is a firm believer that if you shoot it, you pick it up.  She runs pretty big though.  Last time I hunted her she went out  50 yards at least twice.... Shes only a house dog, and Im sure she can't keep up with a setter, but Id love to see her try.


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## StevePickard (Dec 17, 2011)

SJ
Now you really are opening up a can of worms...I put 60,000 miles a year on Ford trucks, and the only Chevy's I've ever owned put me down before 50,000 miles... never even had one of my Fords in the shop for anything other than an oil change...no way I'd drive a Chevy. Just my observation from owning at least 12 Fords bought new and 3 Chevys that put me down.  But that just in my limited experience...how may trucks have you bought?  Ha!

Yea, that post was about versatile dogs, but it seems your comments were more directed to the quail hunting end of things.  For all ya'll Brittany lovers out there, here's another one of his quotes from that post:

"Forgot to mention, Britts have a tendency to be boot lickers, quarter behind you, and they hunt pretty good until you shoot a gun, and then they run and hide under the truck. lol"

And just for the record and to show I'm not biased...I made reference to my friends Setter being best retriever I've ever seen... that setter is probably the best VERSATILE dog I've ever witnessed....he's the best retriever I've ever seen...does everything that's required for the Retriever hunt test..but they won't let him enter....sits in a dove field and retrieves doves...water retrieves ducks....runs rabbits...and does a pretty good job  on quail...and probably would tree a coon.  But in the quail field alone, he's only an average dogs...runs out of gas too quick. But overall he's a great dog.  

JetJokey...you take over...I know for a fact your qualified for this debate! I've got to go take my Brittanys out for some fun!
Steve
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## Jetjockey (Dec 17, 2011)

You guys are all wrong, and thats why I drive a Tundra. haha..  

This arguement could go on and on and on.  Everyone likes "their" breed of gun dogs.  We could paint every breed with a broad stroke, but why?  Are their breeds that tend to be better at some things then others?  Sure!  But, at the end of the day, they are all great dogs.  Trials are probably the best way to compare dogs, and brits have done very, very well against the other pointing breeds in all breed trials.  Buddy is the most famous NSTRA dog in history for a reason.  Brits have done very well at the AKC National GD championships over the years for a reason.  But so have GSPs, and even a few ES's, and EP's.  On average, Id say your chances of getting a great bird dog are about the same with any of the four major pointing breeds.  Its all about the breeding, and not the breed.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

Well Steve,

I like Dodge, never had any problems with them. I’ve owned 2 fords, 3 Chevy’s and I’m on my forth Ram. Next truck will be a Ram as well.  I got tired of replacing the heads and valves on the fords.  They don’t have any stamina either and  can’t run big.



I’m done      , you know where I’m at.  Come see me if your old ford can make.  My boots need some polish.   Good Hunting and have fun this weekend. 

I’ll be out there Sunday.

SJ


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## Jim P (Dec 17, 2011)

Jetjockey said:


> Hey... I wanna play!  Ive got a little tiny brit that likes to run around and chase bugs.  She's only 32lbs though, so Im SURE she doesn't have the stamina to keep up with all your big dogs.  And she is a firm believer that if you shoot it, you pick it up.  She runs pretty big though.  Last time I hunted her she went out  50 yards at least twice.... Shes only a house dog, and Im sure she can't keep up with a setter, but Id love to see her try.



  That's a good one Jetjockey, I won't tell our secret. lol Come on now guy's  All I buy is Ford trucks after all they didn't even take the "Big O's stimulus. My2009 has 78K and not a bit of trouble out of it (knock on wood)lol


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## rapid fire (Dec 17, 2011)

I bet if we all throw our dogs down together, they are all just going to run around and smell each other's butts.  They're not going to care what breed or color the other one is and they're all going to hunt together.  They don't give a crap what breed they are, we are the only ones that care about that.  All they want to do is hunt.  The ones getting up in arms about what breed is the best are probably the same ones that hack their dog to death in the field instead of just letting the dog do what we can't do, which is smell birds.


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## Supercracker (Dec 17, 2011)

Jim P said:


> That's a good one Jetjockey, I won't tell our secret. lol Come on now guy's  All I buy is Ford trucks after all they didn't even take the "Big O's stimulus. My2009 has 78K and not a bit of trouble out of it (knock on wood)lol



My 03 Excursion just rolled over 230K.  No problems at all to speak of.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

I had a 98 F-150, replaced the A/C compressor twice, head casket and valves at 70 k and the transmission rebuilt at 120k.  I traded the truck after I fixed the transmission. Wife had a Ford Explorer as soon as the warranty was up the starter went, alternator, electric window motors, door locks, power seats and rear hatch mechanism.  I had a brake job done at the dealership and a week after we got it back the master cylinder went, and then the ABS computer module went at 40 k.  Took the Explorer to 3 dealership, 2 new ABS modules, new calibers, rotors, drums, and brake lines and they could never get the brakes right.  One wheel would lock up when ever it felt like it. The truck wasn’t safe to drive.  I wasn’t going to put my wife and three kids in that truck. Dealership told me I had gremlins. That was their answer. Followed the recommended maintenance and all work was done at the dealership. We traded it, four year old truck with less then 50k. I just didn’t have a good Ford experience.  I liked the trucks, but I couldn’t afford the maintenance to drive a Ford. Both of my boys drive Fords trucks and haven’t had any major issues, knock on wood.


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## Supercracker (Dec 17, 2011)

yeah, but can it find birds?


lol


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

SC,

Not going there, I've been beat down enough all ready today.  lol

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

Jetjockey said:


> Hey... I wanna play!  Ive got a little tiny brit that likes to run around and chase bugs.  She's only 32lbs though, so Im SURE she doesn't have the stamina to keep up with all your big dogs.



JJ,

That sounds good to me, lets go run them sometime.  Let's run them right after your dog wins the Nationals.  Maybe I will get lucky and your pup will be a little tired, but somehow I doubt it.   

I hate to disappoint you, Brigit is a little Field Setter, she only weighs 38 lbs, she is not big at all, but she does likes to run. She doesn't know that she is a little Setter. Steve’s Bullet is probably bigger then my Setter. 

Good luck at the Nationals and please keep us posted.  Do you have your pup back yet, or is your dog still competing?I will be cheering for you and your Britt.



SJ


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## Setter Jax (Dec 17, 2011)

Jim P said:


> All I buy is Ford trucks after all they didn't even take the "Big O's stimulus. lol



True Jim, but at least Chevy and Dodge put Americans back to work and not lined the pockets of Wall Street and Bankers.  I don’t like it either, but hopefully the worker could put some food on the table.

SJ


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## Jim P (Dec 17, 2011)

If they new how to run a bussiness they wouldn't of needed the tax payers money to bail them out. lol How  many pheasant you 2 bag today or was it woodcock?


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## Jetjockey (Dec 18, 2011)

Setter Jax said:


> JJ,
> 
> That sounds good to me, lets go run them sometime.  Let's run them right after your dog wins the Nationals.  Maybe I will get lucky and your pup will be a little tired, but somehow I doubt it.
> 
> ...



Thanks SJ.. She did a nice job at the ABC All Age Nationals, but they didn't use her.  She had 3 finds, 2 stop to flushes, and a back.  The winners all had 5 finds.  She got around though, and that made us pretty happy, a lot of dogs got picked up.  Nationals takes a lot of skill and possibly more luck......  We got her home two weeks ago, so now I have just over a month to hunt the heck out of her, with very little time to do it.  Ive got to keep her in shape so shes ready to go back to the trainer in mid Jan.  She is going to run in the AKC National GD Championship at Ames in February.  Id LOVE to see her make the call back day, but even that is going to take a heck of a dog with a little luck.

One thing Ive learned about dogs though, never brag them up to much.  I don't care how good they are, the day you go to the field with someone who has never seen your dog, and you've told them how great a dog you have, is the day your dog will decide to chase butterflies, eat poop, and point tweety birds.  Or in my case, its the day before the dog decides to go into season.  And the guy gets to watch my supposidely nice running dog hit 50 yards at the most, and average about 3 MPH on the GPS.


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## Jim P (Dec 18, 2011)

So true JJ learned that lesson years ago, when you go to bragging something will go wrong.


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## Setter Jax (Dec 19, 2011)

Jim P said:


> If they new how to run a bussiness they wouldn't of needed the tax payers money to bail them out. lol How  many pheasant you 2 bag today or was it woodcock?



Hey Jim,

SC and I checked out a MWA close to my house.  We didn't go to all the areas that we wanted to.  There were 15 deer hunters at the MWA that day and we didn't want to ruin their hunt. First at the check station the lady tried to tell us that we couldn't hunt there.  SC had to get the regulations out and show the lady that we were allowed to.  I don't think that area has seen birds hunters before, so that's a good thing.  So it was more of a scouting trip.  We hunted for about 2 1/2 hours.  It was great cover, but we didn't find any birds.  It was new growth pines and hard woods from a burn a couple of years ago.  Deer season goes out in FL I think on 3 Jan and we are going to go back when there aren't any deer hunters out there.  You never know, some deer hunters don't like bird dogs and I've heard of them shooting dogs.  We didn't want to take the chance of one of the dogs getting hurt.  It was still nice getting out of the house and running the dogs.  SC got the new Garmin tracker and that was pretty cool.  I would like to have one but they have a good price tag on it.  Maybe I will get one for next season.  It also tells you where you parked the truck.  Lol  That's a handy feature too. One of the features is that it will tell you how far your dog ran that day. We ran the dogs for a little over 2 hours and the dogs logged in 8 1/2 miles.  

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Dec 19, 2011)

Jim,

SC going Pheasant hunting on Thursday and then we are getting together on Friday morning for a quail hunt at the hunting club.  Your welcome to join us if you want, the hunt's on me you just need to drive down and meet us early Friday morning. P.M. if you are interested and I will give you directions and the details. 

SJ


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## Setter Jax (Dec 19, 2011)

Jim P said:


> So true JJ learned that lesson years ago, when you go to bragging something will go wrong.



Jim,  you must be talking about me and Biscuit.  I bragged him up and the last three times out he has had some minor issues.  lol  I need to learn to keep my big mouth shut sometimes.  lol

SJ


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## Jim P (Dec 19, 2011)

No I was talking about me years ago when I was young and sassy. lol


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